Black Widow or Black Widow Ultra and what is the best for me and a PT-AE8000 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

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post #1 of 14 Old 01-27-14, 04:54 AM Thread Starter
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David
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Munich
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Black Widow or Black Widow Ultra and what is the best for me and a PT-AE8000

Hi all,

I'm relatively new here. Harpmaker has been helping me in another thread (I mixed Black Widow with a new AAA-F batch) but I thought that my questions or complications should now be put into a new thread for all to maybe learn from and because I wanted to get specific.

Room - a living room with pretty good dark curtains and white walls and ceiling.
Projector is the Panasonic PT-AE8000 or as Panasonic likes to do a PT-AT6000 over here.
I watch both TV and Movies but would prefer this time to set up a 2.35 aspect ratio screen. Being able to see and eat while watching is important sometimes.

I want to set the projector at around 15 feet or (4.6m) and the screen size I have painted has a diagonal of 115 inches (2.9m). I just wanted to start big and work down to a size I prefer.

I understand also from the review of the Panasonic PT-AT8000 from projector central that the brightness of the projector is as follows.

Mode - Lumens
Cinema 1 - 822
Cinema 2 - 1612
Game - 1673
Normal - 1752
Dynamic - 2471
Rec. 709 - 821
D-Cinema - 872

I don't fully understand the calculator (I dont know which brightness setting this is on.) and I have read here some are not a fan of it or them generally, but it says that the Panasonic will produce around 17 fL. This I have also read is acceptable.

It now also seems I have access to both the old and new AAA-f (i have to buy some more and now from a new source which has both old and new). Thus I now have paint with NCS S 0907 Y70R or the Bermuda Beige. I also have paint with RAL 7038 (N7.9).

So my questions;

Are my calculations above with the projector central calculator correct?
I know screen size and brightness at the end of the day are subjective but please give me your opinion, given my situation?
In your opinion should I be using Black Widow (ie. BB and AAA-F) or Black Widow Ultra (ie. RAL 7038 (N7.9) and AAA-F)?

Any other tips or pointers would be helpful.
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Black Widow or Black Widow Ultra and what is the best for me and a PT-AE8000-pc_calculator1.png  

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post #2 of 14 Old 01-27-14, 05:56 AM
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Re: Black Widow or Black Widow Ultra and what is the best for me and a PT-AE8000

Quote:
darbid wrote: View Post
It now also seems I have access to both the old and new AAA-f (i have to buy some more and now from a new source which has both old and new). Thus I now have paint with NCS S 0907 Y70R or the Bermuda Beige. I also have paint with RAL 7038 (N7.9).
I am very interessed to locate the old formula of AAA-F. Can you tell me where did you find it?

How big is your screen? How many hours on the lamp? Are you going to calibrate your projector or not?
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post #3 of 14 Old 01-27-14, 07:22 AM Thread Starter
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David
 
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Re: Black Widow or Black Widow Ultra and what is the best for me and a PT-AE8000

Quote:
Yiannis1970 wrote: View Post
I am very interessed to locate the old formula of AAA-F. Can you tell me where did you find it?
I'm in Munich. I have not got it yet but on the phone it sounded like he had 1 or 2 old bottles of 120ml. They don't have an online shop.

Quote:
Yiannis1970 wrote: View Post
How big is your screen? How many hours on the lamp? Are you going to calibrate your projector or not?
Projector is brand new. In fact not even out of the box. I am flexible with the screen size, you can read above the maximum or starting screen size.
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post #4 of 14 Old 01-27-14, 01:14 PM
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Jason
 
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Re: Black Widow or Black Widow Ultra and what is the best for me and a PT-AE8000

Footlamberts (fL) = Foot-Candles x Gain

Foot-Candles = Lumens per square foot of screen surface

To calculate the footlamberts you will get, first calculate the screen surface area in square feet:

Your example was 115" diagonal (106" wide x 44" high) so the width if feet is 106/12, and height is 44/12, or
8.83 ft x 3.67ft. Therefore the area is 32.39 square feet

Say you choose to run in the lowest setting to get a good image for movies, you would have 821 lumens available (Rec. 709). So, your foot-candles would be 821/32.39 or 25.3.

Assuming you use a screen with a Gain of 1.0, calculate the Footlamberts as 25.3 x 1.0 which is still 25.3 fL.

Now, you need to consider that your lamp will age and decrease in brightness to 50% of the new lamp value.

So take half of 821 and re-calculate the fL:

821/2 = 410.5

410.5 lumens / 32.39 square feet = 12.7 foot-candles

With a 1.0 gain screen, its still 12.7 fL.

12.7 might be a little low for some and may force you to change settings towards the end of the lamp life.

The Projectorcentral.com calculator does something like this but they don't tell you what initial lumens setting they pick, nor what they assume the lumens will be when the lamp gets old.

If you follow the calculation above you can do it all on your own! Good Luck!
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post #5 of 14 Old 01-27-14, 05:58 PM
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Re: Black Widow or Black Widow Ultra and what is the best for me and a PT-AE8000

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Pyrometman wrote: View Post

Now, you need to consider that your lamp will age and decrease in brightness to 50% of the new lamp value.

Can i ask how you came up with such percentage?

Most of the times, brightness drop is due to dust in the wheel or in the panels. As a matter of fact, my two projectors have a drop of 20-30% after 800 - 1500 hours caused by my lamp only.
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post #6 of 14 Old 01-27-14, 06:20 PM
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Re: Black Widow or Black Widow Ultra and what is the best for me and a PT-AE8000

I'm not answering for Pyrometman, but I have always seen the 50% drop-off value used for lumens during the life of a normal PJ lamp. I have never read anything documenting that "fact" though. This is yet another very good reason to purchase an inexpensive light meter that measures in Lux or Foot-Lamberts. They can be had online for $20 or less and are as accurate in measuring light as photographic meters costing hundreds of dollars.
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post #7 of 14 Old 01-27-14, 06:29 PM
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Re: Black Widow or Black Widow Ultra and what is the best for me and a PT-AE8000

Quote:
Yiannis1970 wrote: View Post
Can i ask how you came up with such percentage?

Most of the times, brightness drop is due to dust in the wheel or in the panels. As a matter of fact, my two projectors have a drop of 20-30% after 800 - 1500 hours caused by my lamp only.

A lot of lamp manufacturers don't give a rating to final lamp failure, they give a life rating (in hours) to 50% lamp brightness.
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post #8 of 14 Old 01-27-14, 06:31 PM
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Re: Black Widow or Black Widow Ultra and what is the best for me and a PT-AE8000

Yes, Don, i don't question the percentage of the drop. The thing is that many many people hardly ever go in service for cleaning after 1000 or so hours, and i can assure you that a great percentage of brightness drop is due to dust in the internal parts and especially the light path. Of course, the majority ''blames'' the lamp's poor performance but this is only the half truth.
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post #9 of 14 Old 01-27-14, 06:36 PM
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Re: Black Widow or Black Widow Ultra and what is the best for me and a PT-AE8000

Quote:
Yiannis1970 wrote: View Post
Yes, Don, i don't question the percentage of the drop. The thing is that many many people hardly ever go in service for cleaning after 1000 or so hours, and i can assure you that a great percentage of brightness drop is due to dust in the internal parts and especially the light path. Of course, the majority ''blames'' the lamp's poor performance but this is only the half truth.
Yes, that is also true...and some projectors are designed better than others to keep dust out of the light path...but it's always a good idea to keep it clean.
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post #10 of 14 Old 01-27-14, 11:03 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Black Widow or Black Widow Ultra and what is the best for me and a PT-AE8000

Thank you Pyrometman for your formula that sounds good. There is one variable that I don't see in your calculation and that is the distance to the screen? Am I missing something here?

Also I have a burning question or decision to make and that is what paint to use or would be suitable and I am hoping to get opinions. As I wrote above it appears I have access to both old and new AAA-F and I have already bought two different base paints so what in you opinion is the best course of action?
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