Help me pick a DIY paint - Page 2 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

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post #11 of 40 Old 07-21-09, 10:51 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Help me pick a DIY paint

Quote:
Harpmaker wrote: View Post
We don't run around in pristine white lab coats, we got a layer of dirt on us just like you.
I think you have a layer of paint on you, not a layer of dirt

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Harpmaker wrote: View Post
Believe me, I hear ya! In these economic times most of us need to stretch our dollar until it almost snaps! BW can be made with many other paints besides Valspar, Behr #1850 works well too.
Okay, I'll keep that in mind.

Quote:
Harpmaker wrote: View Post
I've been thinking about a new mix that isn't anywhere near ready to go public, look for a PM from me.
Oooh, sounds exciting. I'll await your PM.
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post #12 of 40 Old 08-02-09, 08:29 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Help me pick a DIY paint

Well, the renos are doe and the recliner's are in place, just waiting for something to look at when I sit in them!

Today I rolled two coats of Kilz2 on the screen wall (with about 2 hours in between coats). Tomorrow I am gong to lightly dry sand the wall (I bought 120 grit paper), wipe everything down, and then roll on a third (and possibly fourth) coat of Kilz2.

Is that long enough to wait before sanding? The last coat today was done around 6 pm, and I likely won't sand until 11 am-ish, so roughly a 17 hour "cure" on the paint before sanding...

After that, I'll get the PJ mount up and hang the PJ, so I can shoot some images on the wall!
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post #13 of 40 Old 08-02-09, 09:02 PM
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Re: Help me pick a DIY paint

Honestly... two coats is enough. You really don't need any more coats of primer unless you're seeing bleed through or uneven coverage. The more coats you have, the more texture build up you'll have. I know you mentioned sanding, but with two coats you should be fine and unless you really want to sand you shouldn't have to.

I had over a dozen layers of different screen paints on my test screen before the texture started to become a visible issue.

Definitely make sure you do a calibration. You're being smart and way ahead of the game! The beauty of going with a D65 neutral screen is after you calibrate to a unity gain white reference screen (that's also neutral) you shouldn't have to adjust your colors when you go to your gray screen! With other DIY screen paints that claim to be neutral but aren't, I guarantee you'll be tweaking the color adjustments at the projector. That's a clear sign that the screen itself is having an adverse impact on the image, and that's the last thing anyone wants.

You never know though, you may like the white reference screen better too. Without doing a baseline though you'd never know. This is a step I see some of the other big time installers neglect to mention and I firmly believe it is because they don't want people to see a baseline reference and then how much the color changes from the reference screen to their 'superior' gray screen. Quite simply put, without any frame of reference just about anything can 'look' good. As the saying goes... "Ignorance is bliss".

We don't want ignorant bliss though. Our goal is to educate people so they can make a decision and know it was the right one. This way you'll have seen a white reference screen, see how the colors remain accurate with a true D65 gray screen... see the perceived contrast improve, and shadow detail dramatically improved.

1canuck2 I think when you're finished you're going to be very happy as well as know you have the right screen for your setup.

"Make everything as simple as possible, but no simpler." - Albert Einstein

"If all else fails, spin the cat."- Grzboken
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post #14 of 40 Old 08-02-09, 09:57 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Help me pick a DIY paint

Thanks for the reply.

The builder painted the the side columns dark brown, but only primed the screen part of the wall with one coat of drywall primer. He happened to splash a brown paintbrush mark on the primed part, and after two coats of Kilz2 on top of this, I can still see it.

Also, I asked the drywaller to do a skim coat of joint compound across the whole screenwall, but unfortunately, he did not. I can still see a slight texture difference between the one horizontal joint and the drywall part of the wall, so part of the idea in doing multiple coats is to at least end up with an even texture across the whole wall.

I bought a gallon of Kilz2, and the wall I am painting is only 11' x 8', so I have lots of Kilz2 to spare! It only takes me about 45 minutes or so to do a coat of primer (including cleanup), so the only cost to me in doing more coats right now is my time...

BTW, I bought a 1/4" nap roller, which was even smoother than the 3/8" - 1/2" nap recommended elsewhere, should this be okay? It should result in a smoother finish providing my technique doesn't suck.

BTW, I was able to find a Wagner Control Spray! So for the screen paint I plan to spray it on, which should help with the texture issue.

Given that I do feel I have to do three or four coats of primer, would you then recommend that I do sand after this second coat has cured? And if so, is a 17 hour cure long enough before sanding?

I've never sanded a wall before, I assume its gonna be messy... As I say, I bought 120 grit paper sheets for use with a 3"x8" sanding block (the kind with the handle and a foam "underpad" against which the paper is mounted). Can I sand the whole wall with one sheet of paper, or should I change the sheet? How do you clean the paint dust off of the sheet? Given that I am dry sanding, water doesn't seem to be the cleaner of choice... Sorry if these are dumb questions.
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post #15 of 40 Old 08-02-09, 11:03 PM
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Re: Help me pick a DIY paint

They are not dumb questions at all, I just wish I had better answers for you. Perhaps others here have sanded Kilz2 and can recommend the proper method and equipment.

My guess is that 17 hours is not enough time before sanding, but it's just a guess. If the paint isn't ready to sand it will "pill" or form little balls of paint between the sandpaper and the wall as you sand. If it's really not ready it might even pull up areas of paint.

As I say, I've never sanded Kilz2 (or any other primer), but I think I would use drywall screens (and probably 220 grit) to do the job. I think regular sandpaper will quickly "load" and get paint in between the pieces of grit on the paper thus greatly diminishing the cutting power of the paper. Drywall screens are very open and allow the paint being literally scraped off the wall to fall through the screen. But all this is just a guess.

My handle "harpmaker" wasn't just pulled from a hat; I took a year-long course to learn how to make Celtic harps. My instructor (who is a real harpmaker by trade) mentioned that he always had problems (pilling) sanding the initial layers of lacquer on the harp because it wasn't truly "dry" (this may take several weeks) before he had to sand it to prepare for spraying on another coat. I was looking at sanding stuff at Lowe's or Home Depot and spotted the drywall screen in 220 grit and got some. He is using it to do the initial lacquer sanding on his harps to this day.
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post #16 of 40 Old 08-03-09, 12:33 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Help me pick a DIY paint

Well, based on your input and some digging, I changed my plan slightly. I rolled a third coat of Kilz2 on this morning without sanding. I am gonna setup the PJ and shoot on the wall as is to get my size and location dialed in and run a calibration, etc (Maybe even watch a movie!). I'll leave it setup this way for at least a week to let the Kilz fully cure.

Once the screen is dialed in location wise, I'll mask off and roll the brown "surround" paint on the wall and leave it to cure for another week. Then I'll mask off the screen and sand the screen portion of the Kilz2 and spray the screen. At this point, this is prolly 2 weeks away!

Oh, and I picked up the 220 "grit" drywall screens you mentioned. Thanks for the tip.
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post #17 of 40 Old 08-03-09, 09:49 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Help me pick a DIY paint

Progress!

I got the PJ mounted today!! The PJ lens is roughly 16' 2" back from the screen wall and I am currently shooting a roughly 116" diagonal. I am gonna bump it up to 120" and see what I think.

I haven't worked out all my measurements yet (screen height, etc) and there's no sound yet, but hopefully over the next few evenings I'll get some more pieces in place and start tweaking.

What's the best calibration method? I own the Digital Video Essentials DVD from a few years ago, will this be sufficient given that its not a 1080p disc? I'll be playing it on a Samsung BD-P1500 Blu-ray player through the video switching circuit of my Pioneer SC-05 AVR.

Will the upconvert affect the calibration accuracy? Should I calibrate by sending through the native signal instead (but them I'll be upconverting most of my watching to 1080p, so I'd never be watching it at the res with which I calibrated).
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post #18 of 40 Old 08-09-09, 09:02 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Help me pick a DIY paint

So, today we watched our first movie! I spent yesterday making my speaker cables and running the remaining pieces for the "temporary, but we can watch a movie" setup. This morning I did a quick MCACC setup on my Pio AVR and gathered the fam for a viewing of Bolt.

My eyes are roughly 11.5' from the screen and I was shooting a 124" diagonal! I think the picture was a good size but was fearful my wife would want it smaller. After the movie was over she said (without prompting) "I think the picture was a good size. At first I though it was too big, but once the movie started it was fine"!! So, I'll be targeting a 120"-124" screen size once I work out some things like screen and riser height.

I was playing with the calc at ProjectorCentral and it estimates that I get 13fl at 124" with a Screen Gain of 1.0. But what is the gain for scorpion painted on a wall? I saw the link in mech's sig but could not find Scorpion or Cream & Sugar in the list.

Also, do the screen gain numbers on PC assume the lamp is in high mode? I am running mine in low, so what would be the typical impact of this?
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post #19 of 40 Old 08-09-09, 09:27 PM
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Re: Help me pick a DIY paint

Quote:
1canuck2 wrote: View Post
I was playing with the calc at ProjectorCentral and it estimates that I get 13fl at 124" with a Screen Gain of 1.0. But what is the gain for scorpion painted on a wall? I saw the link in mech's sig but could not find Scorpion or Cream & Sugar in the list.
The gain values of those mixes haven't been measured yet. Mech should be doing them soon.

BTW, the minimum fL. numbers we state for mixes uses the default 1.0 gain value at PJC. At least that's the way I do it.

Quote:
Also, do the screen gain numbers on PC assume the lamp is in high mode? I am running mine in low, so what would be the typical impact of this?
My understanding is that they are for the default mode of the PJ, which most of the time is high or normal. A few PJ's actually default to low or econo mode. I believe they also under-value the fL. number by 25% to account for some lamp aging, but I may have misunderstood that.

As a very rough guide, I would take off 25% from high mode for using econo mode.

I know most people are on a shoe-string budget, but it really helps to actually have a light meter to take accurate illumination readings of your PJ; then there is no guessing or assuming involved. An inexpensive Lux meter is all that is needed. I got mine for something like $35 at Amazon.com. These are not photographic light meters, they are more sensitive that those (and cheaper!). They do a great job of measuring the light output of flashlights too. I mean who doesn't want to know exactly how bright their flashlight is right? Being more serious, such a meter will let you monitor just how much brightness you PJ lamp loses through use. It will also allow you to measure the real Contrast Ratio of your PJ.
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post #20 of 40 Old 11-08-09, 06:38 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Help me pick a DIY paint

Well, a long time has passed and I have some updates. I am now at the point where the only thing in the way of a DIY screen formula is my procrastination...

Here's a shot of the room as it stands right now:

The screen is three coats of Kilz2 primer.

I have run through a calibration with a Spyder3 and saw improved results. I would like to run through the calib again to recheck all my numbers but its, uh, so boring/time consuming to do.

I can also say that I am very happy with the results I see just on the Kilz2. I can tell my blacks are not black enough, but it doesn't yet bother me.

My gauge is this: Widescreen content adds black bars top and bottom. Blacks displayed in the picture are indistinguishable from the black bars top and bottom, mean my greyscale calibration /contrast/brightness must be pretty much bang on. Right?
However, the blacks are nowhere near as dark as the brown paint on my wall around the screen (which is not surprising).

How black would a DIY get my blacks compared to the chocolate brown paint surrounding my screen?

The other reason I have not got to DIYing is I am scared to spray with the Wagner Control Spray. I am not looking forward to using it and did not get a chance to practice outside before the weather got cold. I'll have to mask the hell out of the room and am fearful that I will not spray evenly. Right now, my screen surface (rollered) is very nice with no obvious lap marks, etc...

So, do I stop at "good enough", or forge ahead with a Scorpion spray job? I need some encouraging and confidence building, because right now we are thoroughly enjoying the theatre as is.

BTW, if you wanna see a nifty 3D panorama of my theatre, check this link:
http://fieldofview.com/flickr/?page=...t/4081995654/] (requires Shockwave Player)
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