screen paint for new zealand - Page 2 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

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post #11 of 55 Old 03-13-11, 11:46 AM Thread Starter
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Re: screen paint for new zealand

Hi thanks,

just to wrap this up, have you tried the resene space cote as a comparison? to dulux. Only pushing resene as its used by studios and even have a special range for it. but maybe dulux does as well?

Have you actually tried the BW with the AAA. Im new to this stuff but does it not read flat on the spectrum etc and not push blue?

are you recommending not to go with a grey paint at all? I.e. it out ways the positives of the white pop taking into account that I have a lot of ambient light in the day time as non blackout curtains and curtains show light above curtain rail anyway and I also have white ceiling and light walls. At night if I read correct even in blackout that with white ceiling and walls there is an issue?

do the rgb numbers not directly relate to the colour push i.e. midwinter mist 204 206 206 or double concrete 197 197 195. are quite neutral with lab results within 1?

resene say that they use space cote in white pointer 218 214 204. its 8.9


would you still go for a simple paint over a cheap screen i.e. a $300 one or a professional screen paint of the same value.

Cant find the N and rgb of tomas talis and would I go flat or satin?

cheers Jase
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post #12 of 55 Old 03-13-11, 01:30 PM Thread Starter
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Re: screen paint for new zealand

interesting just put a white piece of fermica like material the white stuff from in a kitchen cupboard up against my grey professional screen paint which has gone on really orange peal looking and 6 years since it was 1st opened until i put it on. the white board was way better image for me of a close up on tamatis face on the news this was both with full spot lights on and in the dark. ok the blacks were better in the dark on the grey ( still pretty light with 1500+ lumins coming out of pj ) but in the light in normal mode te grey screen almost dissapeared. so if you can calibrate my blacks a little better white looks the go.

will the rough texture of paint be having much of an effect here?

will paint a straight aluminium roof paint high glow just for a laugh as I looked at the silver screen apart from being a bit low in contrast it gave a great bright picture on the shots I saw but think contrast will be to washed out for me. sport bright popy pic is my priority and ski movies again bright whites ssssssssooooooooooooooooo. After I get your answers re BW AAA etc and other Q. above we should be in action.

pending answers I am swaying dulux vivid what sheen level? after my little test and your insight. you got a cell number or do you want to confine it to hear. Let me know if you need help in town

Jase
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post #13 of 55 Old 03-13-11, 03:12 PM Thread Starter
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Re: screen paint for new zealand

thats all very interesting and making a lot of sense when you say it like that Mech. So really ok I would like blacker backs but from my quick experiment thismorning over all I way preferred that of the white fermica board which seems to have quite a sheen. basiclly from a personal value I would sacrifice a bit of black for bright vibrant colours and POP POP POP is what I want and this seems to be achieved so far by reducing my screen to 120" going smaller makes no difference, going big it looks washed out on my DIY home theatre light contrast grey. So really I am looking at this all wrong.

Put the black a side ( hopefully some calibration can aid that ).
all movies will be watched in dark but light walls

1.( would just going black around screen and a metre say over ceiling help a lot. My screen has less than 50cm not as screen on the sides and bottom and about 10cm on the top. could get black felt material and make like a window in it to see screen then have other cut out to attach to it for different size and aspect viewing. ( not so keen for permanent size screen as some of our sport is resolution so have to shrink screen, other times it has good HD )

2. I like the brightest clearest screen i.e. I love clear bright screens that to me has the pop compared to laptops compared to the flat screens.

So for this am I best with the dulux white vivid in say satin to get what I want without mixing em ah em poly. i.e. does the pop all come from the brightness/ vividness of colours and will the aluminium not really do this?

3. is the smoothness the key to this clear vivid bright image to???????????? If so is there any paint that will aid this for HD projection? I have read mixed reviews on screen material vs painting and spraying on which helps this the most.

I trust you to guys? a great presumption there that this is a man conversation going on here.

I would like bright vivid clear colours diving out of screen please advise.

ps looked at 3d movie avitar I think on a new 3d Tv, didnt like as it looked like looking through an equiriam

thanks for all the help and please let me know if you need help in CH CH

Jase
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post #14 of 55 Old 03-13-11, 03:53 PM
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Re: screen paint for new zealand

Yeah thats the file Mech, alot of what is in that xls is mixes I experimented with and standard paints off the shelf.

jaseskiwi, I pretty much looked at all readily available paints in NZ. Anyway trust me in that a semi independent chemist said the vivid white contained the most of the good stuff, the spectral results bare that a true statement.
The Dulux vivid white is in the ALL tab, labelled "DW"

The thing is with grey shades is that you are not and cannot target the dark regions alone, ALL light is compressed or more correctly, absorded. So if you drop black levels by 20% or enough to see perceptual deeper black you will hit 20% off the whites aswell. With white it is difficult to judge perceptual gains and losses due to the log nature of vision. The fact is that you have difficulty using POP and grey in the same sentence to describe a grey paint.


Cheap screen vs paint, this is a good question. I use a reasonbly cheap motorised(sub $1000nzd), it's spectral response is maginal. But I wanted the convience of motorised and affordable, however because I am a calibrator dialling out the ills wasn't too much of a concern.
You WILL spend more than you think chasing paint mixes, IMHO although interesting and possibly fun, its an absolute waste of energy, money and time.

The more matt a paint the more of the good stuff, however the more flatterning agents the smoother the finish.
Dulux vivid white is the base for all the white tones, use it as it comes off the shelf.
Atleast five coats plus an undercoat. let dry and Lightly sand with very fine paper on the first few coats.
DONNOT use sponge rollers, the short nap roller is best.
DONNOT use water wet rollers on following coats. Water will create bubbles in the surface finish.
Wrap the roller in gladwrap or sealed tube between coats or use a new roller, or cycle between rollers that are cleaned between coats and have dried completely.

In my website at www.mastercal.co.nz I have my ph number, give me a call, happy to help.

regards

Light changes what it is doing depending if we are looking or not. Considering we only see this as a reflection of the past....what is it really doing now?
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post #15 of 55 Old 03-13-11, 05:20 PM Thread Starter
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Re: screen paint for new zealand

thanks for that. so I guess you are not going to comment on BW AAA. You could PM me re that if you felt more comfortable about it. That was my only other option after all this research.

The cheap screen I was looking at was
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Electronics...-360343013.htm

Do you find your screen wrinkles or do you have tensions on it

Also are the profession paints worth the $$$$$ over the dulux

cheers Jase
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post #16 of 55 Old 03-13-11, 06:15 PM
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Re: screen paint for new zealand

Thought I covered BW/AAA in the xls file mech posted above. grab it have a look.
RGB values are only part of the story, infact RGB values only cover 3 destinct points where light from projectors is broader than that covering the the visual range.

I think that importing BW and AAA is a waste of time and money, a similar product is available here as ALi paste although classed as dangerous goods and not easy to obtain. (ali paste can actually be an explosive)
IF you want cost effective, paint Dulux vivid white, simple solution.

The other painted screen products such as Goo do have hours of research in them, thats what you pay for, but when it comes to home brews, you cannot expect the magic some report as they are so inconsistent.

Fact is whilst creating my experimental screens back in 2006~9 I basically concluded that unless you are going to create a actual sellable product the R&D costs become an expensive exercise, ie you might as well just go out and buy a good quality screen and just enjoy it and the extra time you are left with.
I also concluded that for paint, keeping it simple was the best approach, hence why I harp on about vivid white.
BTW there is a chap in ChCH who made a contrast adaptive screen, but they are a comercial product that costs. He also notes they cause calibration problems due to spectral shifts, like looking at a LCD screen off axis.

Pull down screens generally suffer waves, partly due to the pull down action. Motorised tend to use larger rollers and are less prone to waves, but still can have them. All tend to have edge roll.
Tensioned screens are just that, tensioned, to eliminate both of the above, however more costly as you probably have noticed.

The tardme screens, you pay for what you get, don't expect high quality.
I'd tend to go with www.rapalloav.co.nz, they carry a better lineup and you have comeback and much nicer to deal with. If you quiry them, tell them Nigel from Masterpiece sent you their way and they will look after you.


If you want to talk, please phone me. Happy to discuss all this stuff.

Light changes what it is doing depending if we are looking or not. Considering we only see this as a reflection of the past....what is it really doing now?
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post #17 of 55 Old 03-14-11, 04:57 AM Thread Starter
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Re: screen paint for new zealand

Hi again, thanks for the chat today. what dulux vivid white paint should I get i.e. flat enamel interior????

One thing being a not so bright country lad is..... If a grey screen with additives compared to grey screen absorbs ambient light for a less washed out picture but reflects more light back to the viewer yet the idea of a grey screen is to stop reflection. I.e. why not just have a white screen that reflects more light back than the grey so be it at the sake of a deeper black? Or is the theory that the additives reflect the light back out of the screen after it has been absorbed or does it just reflect the light away from the screen and the white screen reflect the light toward the screen.

White it is for me anyway just would like to understand it more about grey white ambient light projected light gain and N value and how they relate

Jase
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post #18 of 55 Old 03-14-11, 03:38 PM
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Re: screen paint for new zealand

Heres the code number from a doc I dug up,
Vivid White 620-04912

I might note there is no real advantage to go towards glossy surfaces, infact matt contains more TiO2 than satin as all paint starts as matt and the gloss(flatterning) ingredents are added. Matt is what you want.

With projection, to create black there must still be a carrier of light if ever so small. Then the surface to be perfect would be black to create perceptual deep visual black. However black also absorbs the light that is trying to be white at equal absorbance levels. ie A Black surface may absorb 80% of light, as low light trying to be black or strong light trying to be white. The result would be a deep perceptual black but very dull white as 80% of it's initial luminance is absorbed by the surface.

The grey screen attempts to knock off the base light level to create the black, the N8 lvel is roughly 20% absorbent, thus white is also 20% absorbed. Because the levels are actually log in nature far more white levels are absorbed than black, 20% is a ratio not total amount. However we don't notice too much as we are more sensitive to black level differences than white level differences.

The catch is though user based projectors are typically lacking in lumens relative to commercial grade and can run out of puff, the gains in black level perception are lost to overall performance losses.

In other simple words, stick to a white screen or very near too, and spend more time darkening your viewing environment, finally calibrate as calibration has measurable gains in black level perception and maximises the screen & projector package.

Light changes what it is doing depending if we are looking or not. Considering we only see this as a reflection of the past....what is it really doing now?
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post #19 of 55 Old 03-14-11, 05:02 PM Thread Starter
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Re: screen paint for new zealand

I get the black white thing what I dont get is how you can get increased gain/keep white levels as of a white screen yet absorb the light at the same time. Is it the way the aluminium or opal etc reflect light i.e. does the grey absorb the ambient and projector light to stop it washing out and then the additives reflect more off after its been absorbed?

from what I see they dont have a vivid white matte only flat or low sheen or is low sheen equiv. to matte in this range as flat is only 1-2% sheen?


boarder paint is there any dulux stuff that works? or does it realy need to be material felt or velvet

cheers Jase
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post #20 of 55 Old 03-14-11, 07:12 PM
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Re: screen paint for new zealand

Use as matt as you can get, if flat is all thats around now(has been a few years so things change)
That number above is probably still the base stock for all internal paint.

For your question about reflective components, The only way to make a screen gain more reflective light is to narrow the focus so that direct light is directed into a focus as a torch does. However keep in mind you cannot amplify the original light, only gather the light. So screen gain is technically a poor discription. Focusing the light just redirects more of the original light back to say a viewer. There is a catch though, screens with high gain discriptions have narrower fields of view, they can also have spectral shifts across the screen surface and hotspot, brighter in center of the image darker toward the edge.

This is why it is typical to find the average manufactured screen between 0.8~1.2 gain with the mass of those about 1.1
A good quality grey screen with a gain of 1 means the manufacture has attempted to balance contrast(black level and or ambient light absorption) with higher gain, narrower field of view without spectral shifts and hotspoting.

It really is a world of compromise and tradeoffs.

Light changes what it is doing depending if we are looking or not. Considering we only see this as a reflection of the past....what is it really doing now?
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