screen paint for new zealand - Page 3 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

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post #21 of 55 Old 03-14-11, 07:22 PM
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Re: screen paint for new zealand

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jaseskiwi wrote: View Post
I get the black white thing what I dont get is how you can get increased gain/keep white levels as of a white screen yet absorb the light at the same time. Is it the way the aluminium or opal etc reflect light i.e. does the grey absorb the ambient and projector light to stop it washing out and then the additives reflect more off after its been absorbed?
First of all, visible light is either reflected or it is absorbed by a surface, not absorbed and then reflected. The fact that this "absorption/reflection" theory has been advanced on another forum is just proof they don't understand the physics of light or laws of reflection at even the most basic level.

The way you get the white levels of a white screen on a gray screen is by increasing the reflectivity of the gray screen compared to the white screen. This can be done by adding gloss or by adding billions of small "mirrors" to the paint. Gloss basically works by stealing the light from off-axis (from the viewer POV) areas of the screen and concentrating it on-axis. This will create a viewing cone and if carried too far the screen will hot spot. Aluminum flakes or particles work by appearing as microscopic mirrors in and on the paint (gloss is only on the surface of the paint). These flakes/particles are randomly oriented on the paint surface and in the paint layer itself, they don't form a more-or-less solid shiny surface the way gloss does so they don't concentrate as much light toward a central point; this means they are a less efficient way of boosting gain, but they also aren't as prone to hot spotting. Mica particles act in a similar fashion, but their ability to refract light (break it up into colors) needs to be controlled by the paints opacity or color-shifting and shimmering can occur.

Reflective particles actually reflect some light even when they are below the paints surface, but not much below.
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post #22 of 55 Old 03-15-11, 02:03 AM Thread Starter
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Re: screen paint for new zealand

Ok gotya finally, that make complete sense in theory now.

How those little additives know where to lie so they reflect light to the POV simply they must be very bright sparks ( geniuses ) LOL

I looked at the picture of hot spotting in my other thread and to be honest in sport games I would say I could put up with just a slight less hot spotting than that to get the dynamics range ( blacker blacks and deeper colours ). I still think I will stick with the white though and convince the wife of black paint in a semi circle on roof coming out about 1m from the screen wall at its deepest point. ( Is that enough to help ) and then paint the side of screen wall and under screen black also ( Its about 50cm on sides and bottom and about 10cm on the top ) Is paint good enough or do I need to use felt ( velvet pretty hard to get here ). hopefully that will do as good a result as the grey screen as I like my whites as I watch ski vids.

I just hope I can now find this paint that smokin Joe was talking about as it seems it was long ago he go the stuff so maybe the properties have completely changed in the dulux paint. There must be a reason why Peter jackson uses Resene and they have a dedicated paint range with some semi translucent base paint followed by the colour over top?????????? Also they have a flat enamel called space coat that corporate's etc use it tinted white pointer (N8.9), 218 214 204. Is there a reason why you would go just off white like this.

Jase
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post #23 of 55 Old 03-15-11, 03:52 AM Thread Starter
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Re: screen paint for new zealand

Ok, so they have interior wash and wear 101 or ultrahide professional. flat 0-2% gloss and low sheen 5-10% gloss. There is no Matte in these ranges. ( dulux au site says that matte is 2-5% gloss ) so do I go for 1l of each and mix?

cheers Jase
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post #24 of 55 Old 03-15-11, 05:15 AM
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Re: screen paint for new zealand

There is a resene filmpro range, which is made for filmset type work. Hard to get hold of though as not stocked by outlets.

Did you have the link or information for P jacksons screen you make mention of?

The metalics of resene, measured all the possibles, and as far as I can see no new ranges of note.
Hence why i got the raw materials of ali paste in various grades of flake.

I found all mixes of ali flake pushed blue and the higher the mix ratio pushed deeper blue shift.

Using clearcoats of any brand can and will most likely tint with age, yellow shift.(resene chemist comment)

Dulux Vivid White 620-04912, just head to your nearest Dulux outlet, look for the base testpots as an example for number. You should also find the number on the white base paint.
The resene white alternatine is pretty close but does contain less TiO2 than the dulux product, an independent chemist advised me of this, who also happened to supply me with the ali flake.
(that outlet shop is in the RED zone for demo at the moment)

You won't get anywhere trying to get spectro readings or other product details like mix ratios of tints in NZ.
The brands are very protective in NZ, infact Dulux had a "sackable" offence policy with staff who disclose mix ratios.

Light changes what it is doing depending if we are looking or not. Considering we only see this as a reflection of the past....what is it really doing now?
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post #25 of 55 Old 03-15-11, 12:07 PM Thread Starter
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Re: screen paint for new zealand

no link for the Peter J thing that was purely word from the tech management guy via phone so who knows there. They said I can get the filmpro but is that any better in their white anyway???????? If you havnt tested it ir heard I'll leave it. As far as aluminium they now have a fine base range rgb of 125 125 127 http://www.resene.co.nz/comn/whtsnew/finealuminium.htm have you seen that.

Re blue push didnt BW AAA fix that with adding it to bermuda beige so surely you can just do that with the ali fine above then test with your spectrophotometer than fine tune?????????

Anyway you have convinced me out of that route to go white The question is what dulux paint is best the pro series or the wash n wear 101 and what gloss level i.e. the flat or low sheen or mixture of the 2 as there are no Mattes anymore.

Did you ask the resene chemist about the amount of Ti02 in the space cote range or was that not around then? as this if it had the same as dulux could fix the gloss level as they have flat enamel which from what i read seems to work better just flat?????

why would you even conceder poly when you could just have a higher gloss level of paint or does the poly reflect more?

I am going to get paint today hopefully. need to know if flat black paint is ok for boarder and ceiling etc or do I need felt instead

cheers Jase
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post #26 of 55 Old 03-15-11, 02:56 PM Thread Starter
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Re: screen paint for new zealand

resene space coat uses their premium grade Ti02 and there is 340 grams/ litre and low sheen is 2-4% which is inline with dulux matte which doesnt exist in the range with vivid white base. resene can do a match to vivid white they say there white has a blue push due to the resin in it?
do you remember the numbers for dulux

cheers Jase
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post #27 of 55 Old 03-15-11, 06:28 PM
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Re: screen paint for new zealand

They do change their mixes year to year, even batch to batch, hence why DIY screens can be additionally inconsistent.

No I didn't know the actual figures of grams/l of TiO2, took the chemists word for it at the time.

The ali metalicfine existed back when I was playing around, blue push all the way.
Resene head chemist sent me pure tints of their range, couldn't find much that helped spectral response that didn't take the RGB values so low that the result was not useable.
In the end the mixes became such a low level mix ratio it became clear that basic white was just as good for all it's worth.

Again for comparison curves(relationship and curves from past years samples), check the xls file on the Mech download.
Look for tab with RW which is resene white(red push) and DW which is Dulux white(No push).

Again the comparison may be outdated and the base ingredients may have altered so I would have to measure/sample current batchs to be certain.

Light changes what it is doing depending if we are looking or not. Considering we only see this as a reflection of the past....what is it really doing now?
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post #28 of 55 Old 03-17-11, 03:26 AM Thread Starter
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Re: screen paint for new zealand

I just found out that resene flat is 1% gloss at 60 degrees and the low sheen is 5% at 60 degrees, I am after aprox 1.25 gain in white base paint ( no tinting )

dulux matte says its 2-5%

Is blackboard paint the best for the side of walls and boarder or is flat black paint just as good

cheers Jase

Last edited by jaseskiwi; 03-17-11 at 02:37 PM.
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post #29 of 55 Old 03-29-11, 01:02 PM Thread Starter
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Re: screen paint for new zealand

Hi all.

Just wanted to say thanks for your help. I now have a 140", 16:9 screen painted resene white. I no longer feel the need to use bright mode so get a much better pic. in natural mode. looks great with the black wall and ceiling. Just need to make my black boarder ( cardboard and material/paint) for my 120"screen for max pop when watching movies. I have attached a pic as I didnt manage to upload to thread.

I will enjoy for a bit before calibration

many thanks again

cheers Jase
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post #30 of 55 Old 03-29-11, 10:03 PM Thread Starter
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Re: screen paint for new zealand

I must say my paint didnt turn out as smooth as planned even though I sanded between every coat even the top coat. Turns out the guy at paint shop gave me the wrong roller sleeve ( aprox. 4mm mohair ). Apparently its for oil based paints.

What is it that will happen to my final picture I view from having a slightly textured finish and sanded top coat. ( sanding was with 220 grit and you can see sanding marks) compared to a completely flat surface and not sanded. ( the paint is flat in sheen ).

cheers Jase
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