Cream&Sugar™ Ultra - Page 10 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

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post #91 of 161 Old 03-05-13, 10:18 PM Thread Starter
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Don
 
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Re: Cream&Sugar™ Ultra

Quote:
roads wrote: View Post
I am triying to do the hts-x2 i have the two paints, the Berh N6, and the Berh #1850 base, But the Craft Smart metallic Silver doesnt work any more, am thinking to use the Liquitex BASICS 'Silver' acrylic paint, this is going to work? or what i can do? or this paint work with the new formula of the Craft Smart metallic Silver?
Sorry for my english, am learning.
Welcome to HTS!

Sorry for the late response, sometimes times gets away from me.

what is the tint formula for the #1850 base you have? There were 3 ways to make the original C&S™ mix.
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post #92 of 161 Old 03-06-13, 04:27 PM
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Re: Cream&Sugar™ Ultra

The base is:

Code:
C&S™ #3 base. 
1 quart of Behr #1850 
Tint oz. 384th oz. 
C     0        4 
F     0         1
The N6 is:
Code:
The N6 tint formula for Behr is: 
For 1 quart 
Base = Behr #1854
Tint: oz. 348 oz. 
B -     1     6 
C -     0    79  
F -     0    22
Thats because i was trying to do this: http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...creen-mix.html
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post #93 of 161 Old 03-06-13, 06:41 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Cream&Sugar™ Ultra

Quote:
roads wrote: View Post
The base is:

Code:
C&S™ #3 base. 
1 quart of Behr #1850 
Tint oz. 384th oz. 
C     0        4 
F     0         1
The N6 is:
Code:
The N6 tint formula for Behr is: 
For 1 quart 
Base = Behr #1854
Tint: oz. 348 oz. 
B -     1     6 
C -     0    79  
F -     0    22
Thats because i was trying to do this: http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...creen-mix.html
Thank you very much for the formula and link. That is the base I thought you had, but I wanted to be sure. This base is colored so it neutralizes the old Craft Smart Metallic Silver and it will not make a neutral mix if Liquitex BASICS 'Silver' is used instead - such a mix would be "warm" (push reds and oranges).

To make an equivalent of an Elektra™ mix (which is what you are doing), I would recommend making C&S™ Ultra and then darkening it with the N6 paint. I believe the C&S™ Ultra base tint formula to use with Behr paint is V - 5/384 oz., although it seems that Behr may have changed the names of their tints so it could be something other than V which is or was their symbol for the tint color Magenta. The base color you want for making C&S™ Ultra using Behr paint is 5/384 oz. of Magenta tint added to a QUART of #1850 (or equivalent).
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post #94 of 161 Old 03-07-13, 12:36 AM
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Re: Cream&Sugar™ Ultra

Quote:
Harpmaker wrote: View Post
Thank you very much for the formula and link. That is the base I thought you had, but I wanted to be sure. This base is colored so it neutralizes the old Craft Smart Metallic Silver and it will not make a neutral mix if Liquitex BASICS 'Silver' is used instead - such a mix would be "warm" (push reds and oranges).

To make an equivalent of an Elektra™ mix (which is what you are doing), I would recommend making C&S™ Ultra and then darkening it with the N6 paint. I believe the C&S™ Ultra base tint formula to use with Behr paint is V - 5/384 oz., although it seems that Behr may have changed the names of their tints so it could be something other than V which is or was their symbol for the tint color Magenta. The base color you want for making C&S™ Ultra using Behr paint is 5/384 oz. of Magenta tint added to a QUART of #1850 (or equivalent).
Then i need to buy another base and conserve the N6 or i need to edit the #1850 Base or buy another
i found that:
Quote:
Harpmaker wrote: View Post
It's kind of hard to mess the base for C&S™ Ultra up, but I guess it's possible. If you want to try a Behr base get a quart of Behr #1850 (or equivalent) and have them add 5/384 oz. of Magenta tint to the can and shake. Otherwise get the Valspar at Lowe's. BTW, Lowe's just renamed the Valspar Ultra Premium latex Enamel to Valspar Ultra Premium Super Flat Finish. It still has the same item number, 213484.
How i need to ask the paint in home depot?
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post #95 of 161 Old 03-07-13, 04:52 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Cream&Sugar™ Ultra

Quote:
roads wrote: View Post
Then i need to buy another base and conserve the N6 or i need to edit the #1850 Base or buy another.
The #1850 base you have is tinted (colored) to make a neutral gray mix when the old Craft Smart Metallic Silver paint was added it to. Liquitex BASICS 'Silver' will not make a neutral gray mix using that base.

The N6 paint is used to change C&S™ Ultra (and the old C&S™) to a darker neutral gray mix.

Quote:
How i need to ask the paint in home depot?
You need to ask the paint-person at Home Depot for a Quart of Behr #1850 and to tint it with 5/384th of an ounce of Magenta tint.
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post #96 of 161 Old 08-30-13, 08:50 PM
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Re: Cream&Sugar™ Ultra

Quote:
Harpmaker wrote: View Post
The #1850 base you have is tinted (colored) to make a neutral gray mix when the old Craft Smart Metallic Silver paint was added it to. Liquitex BASICS 'Silver' will not make a neutral gray mix using that base.

The N6 paint is used to change C&S™ Ultra (and the old C&S™) to a darker neutral gray mix.


You need to ask the paint-person at Home Depot for a Quart of Behr #1850 and to tint it with 5/384th of an ounce of Magenta tint.
I asked in homedepot(am from mexico, sorry i forgot to mention) and they do not handle that tint how can i ask for them in mexico, and the diferece its to much if i use this base, its going to be big diference?
C&S™ #3 base.
1 quart of Behr #1850
Tint oz. 384th oz.
C 0 4
F 0 1
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post #97 of 161 Old 08-31-13, 12:30 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Cream&Sugar™ Ultra

Quote:
roads wrote: View Post
I asked in homedepot(am from mexico, sorry i forgot to mention) and they do not handle that tint how can i ask for them in mexico, and the diferece its to much if i use this base, its going to be big diference?
C&S™ #3 base.
1 quart of Behr #1850
Tint oz. 384th oz.
C 0 4
F 0 1
No, don't use the base of the old C&S™ #3 mix, it is too strong a color and will cause a "warm" color push to the final mix. I can't imagine Home Depot not having the Magenta tint since it is one of the basic tint colors used to mix many of the colors for even their own color cards as well as many others. The color code for Magenta is "V". For reference only, "C" is Yellow Oxide and "F" is Red Oxide.

If you really can't get the Behr #1850 tinted with Magenta then just use the untinted #1850; the resulting mix won't be quite as neutral but it will still be well within acceptable standards.
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post #98 of 161 Old 11-04-13, 03:16 PM
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Re: Cream&Sugar™ Ultra

I've recently set up my first projector install, and am already quite happy with the images that I'm getting. I say quite happy, because I'm not 100% happy with the black level I'm getting, particularly when the average screen brightness is high.

I do most of my viewing in complete darkness, but my room is not light controlled at all with white walls, cream carpet and cream leather sofa. The ceiling is very high, and likely doesn't impact things much, but it's white as well.

I'm currently using a BOC screen, and given that it's nearly white, I can understand why I'm having problems. I'm therefore looking to paint it with some DIY paint mix, and I'm at the point of testing various blends to make a choice.

As others have said before, I'm not interested in getting involved in the discussions on why AVS forums mixes are bad or good, and I won't be having discussions about your paint mixes there either. I do appreciate the scientific approach that you're taking with measurements though, and I intend to do the same with my test panels as well.

Since my problems are not exactly ambient light, and more reflected light, would you recommend C&S Ultra for my application, or would I be better off choosing BW Ultra or Elektra for my needs? I'm happy to try several options, and would appreciate any suggestions.

Thanks for your help!

For reference, my projector is a JVC DLA-RS46U, projecting onto a 45" CIH 2.35:1 screen (~115" 2.35:1 / ~92" 16:9). I'm not using an anamorphic lens, and I'm projecting at about 13.5' from the screen.

Last edited by Neil R; 11-04-13 at 03:29 PM.
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post #99 of 161 Old 11-04-13, 08:53 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Cream&Sugar™ Ultra

Welcome to HTS!

Quote:
Neil R wrote: View Post
I've recently set up my first projector install, and am already quite happy with the images that I'm getting. I say quite happy, because I'm not 100% happy with the black level I'm getting, particularly when the average screen brightness is high.
With a white/brightly colored room you are still getting the equivalent of ambient light due to the projector light reflecting off those surfaces and back onto the screen.

Quote:
I'm currently using a BOC screen, and given that it's nearly white, I can understand why I'm having problems. I'm therefore looking to paint it with some DIY paint mix, and I'm at the point of testing various blends to make a choice.
While straight BOC makes a nice screen in a darker HT, it can have problems with white/light HT surfaces. The BOC samples I have measured have all come very close to N9, but they had no gloss whatsoever so they produced a darker image than even a non-reflectively enhanced N9 paint.

Quote:
As others have said before, I'm not interested in getting involved in the discussions on why AVS forums mixes are bad or good, and I won't be having discussions about your paint mixes there either. I do appreciate the scientific approach that you're taking with measurements though, and I intend to do the same with my test panels as well.
I don't blame people for not wanting to become enmeshed in the variances between AVS DIY Screens and here, but since you appreciate a scientific approach to screens I must reiterate that they have not done ANY objective testing for mix color or gain and all their "facts" are based on "by eye" subjectiveness which simply doesn't work for properly determining either color neutrality or gain. But in the end it's just paint, try whatever mixes you wish.

Quote:
Since my problems are not exactly ambient light, and more reflected light, would you recommend C&S Ultra for my application, or would I be better off choosing BW Ultra or Elektra for my needs? I'm happy to try several options, and would appreciate any suggestions.
No, C&S™ Ultra would be too bright for you. What you need is a paint that will absorb more light than an N9 so I would recommend an N8. You don't say what paints you are thinking of using, but Sherwin-Williams has a paint color called 'Unique Gray' that, at least my can, is a VERY neutral N8 gray. This color can probably be gotten in almost any brand of paint you wish to use. As of now we are recommending Valspar Signature interior matte paint due to both it's availability (any Lowe's store) and it's quality (not as good as Sherwin-Williams or Benjamin Moore paints, but much better than Behr).

The Elektra™ mixes can't really be made any more because they depended on a metallic paint that is no longer available. Black Widow Ultra™ now fills that roll.

If you desire more gain from any neutral gray paint (flat or matte finish) you can simply mix it with 20% Auto Air Aluminum-fine to get a Black Widow Ultra™ mix.

Quote:
Thanks for your help!
No problem!
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post #100 of 161 Old 11-04-13, 10:41 PM
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Re: Cream&Sugar™ Ultra

Thanks very much for the quick response Harpmaker, and thanks also for your understanding re. the discussion of AVS DIY paint blends.

I will be using an i1 Display Pro (i1D3) colourimeter for quantifying the end results of the screen paints that I test, and though this doesn't give me the capability to see if a paint is reflectively neutral like a spectrophotometer would, I think it will give me enough of an idea of the impact each test paint I choose to use is having, and in the case of this forum's suggestions, spectro results have often been posted anyway.

Given your suggestions, can I get your agreement that a good starting point would be two test panels, one with plain Sherwin-Williams 'Unique Gray', and one with 'Unique Gray' and (newer formula) AAA-F for a Black Widow Ultra™ mix?

I have Lowes, Home Depot and Sherwin-Williams all within a few miles from me, so all are easy to get to. You mention that Sherwin-Williams paints are the best, so I assume that you'd recommend using their version of their 'Unique Gray'? Should I be asking for a specific 'Base' for this paint when I buy it?
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