Cream&Sugarô Ultra - Page 6 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

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post #51 of 161 Old 01-19-12, 08:58 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Cream&Sugarô Ultra

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fnordmorph wrote: View Post
There's a Home Despot 30 miles away (where we usually shop); I think a Behr product was mentioned. Seems like luck with getting the mix right is ... uh.. spotty at that establishment, so I was considering just going to Lowes (got to go down there anyway some time soon).
It's kind of hard to mess the base for C&Sô Ultra up, but I guess it's possible. If you want to try a Behr base get a quart of Behr #1850 (or equivalent) and have them add 5/384 oz. of Magenta tint to the can and shake. Otherwise get the Valspar at Lowe's. BTW, Lowe's just renamed the Valspar Ultra Premium latex Enamel to Valspar Ultra Premium Super Flat Finish. It still has the same item number, 213484.
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post #52 of 161 Old 01-20-12, 08:57 AM
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Re: Cream&Sugarô Ultra

Still the same 8 ounces of water per 16 oz base / 16 oz silver, or is does the Behr need less dilution?
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post #53 of 161 Old 01-20-12, 06:05 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Cream&Sugarô Ultra

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fnordmorph wrote: View Post
Still the same 8 ounces of water per 16 oz base / 16 oz silver, or is does the Behr need less dilution?
I would stick with the 8 oz. of added water even with the Behr paint. What needs dilution isn't the tinted base paint, but rather the Liquitex BASICS Silver.
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post #54 of 161 Old 01-20-12, 10:10 PM
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Re: Cream&Sugarô Ultra

Any idea what a flat clear urethane over c&s would do? I'm thinking of ways to reduce the need to repaint for spills, dents and scratches... I guess alteration in color and reflectance/hotspotting would be the potential problems...
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post #55 of 161 Old 01-20-12, 11:03 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Cream&Sugarô Ultra

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fnordmorph wrote: View Post
Any idea what a flat clear urethane over c&s would do? I'm thinking of ways to reduce the need to repaint for spills, dents and scratches... I guess alteration in color and reflectance/hotspotting would be the potential problems...
Polyurethane top-coats have been proven to add yellow to the screen which just gets stronger with age. Poly has no business in or on a screen mix. I know this is a popular thing to do on another DIY screen forum, but that's their problem. Even they stopped using poly as a top-coat.
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post #56 of 161 Old 01-20-12, 11:14 PM
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Re: Cream&Sugarô Ultra

I suppose it could be balanced out if it was stable, but if it changes with time, it rather defeats the purpose. GIven what urethane 'spar' products do to the color of doors and decks, this doesn't surprise me.

Maybe C&S Ultra will last in the can better than the original did

BTW, the setup is in a basement, standard 8' ceiling, Optoma HD80 inverted on the ceiling projecting onto a wall, projected height maximum about 6 1/2'. Light colored tile floor with a black rug in front of the screen, dark red blackout curtains on the glass doors, light colored ceiling (looking to change that), mix of colors in the room. Gradually drifting darker as we redo finishes. Side wall on the side away from the doors (two sets of doubles) is pretty far away, not much scatter back from that side. The back wall is a good 30 feet away, which seems to help. Pretty good setup, but could use more lumens/sq ft and/or less back reflection. Hate to make the screen smaller; I like the big picture.
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post #57 of 161 Old 01-30-12, 10:28 AM
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Re: Cream&Sugarô Ultra

I repainted my screen last night using this C&S Ultra mix, and it looks great! I previously had a plain OTS ~N8 (paint + poly) screen, which just didn't do it for me. It didn't have enough "pop", and the picture looked dull. (You can read a little more about that here.)

BTW- This is painted on the wall, not a dedicated substrate screen (yet.)

So yesterday i bought the paints and mixed up the C&S Ultra to put on the screen. I bought a handy measuring cup from Kroger that has the measurements labeled on sort of a diagonal "ramp" so that you can see from above how much fluid is in the cup. Makes measuring a lot easier than having to read it from the sides!

I measured 16oz of the white paint, and dumped that into a mixing bucket. Then i added the contents of 4 tubes of the Liquitex Silver. Then i cleaned out the measuring cup and measured 8oz of distilled water into the measuring cup. I used Harp's tip about using a syringe to inject the water into the tubes and shake them to get every last bit of paint out of the tubes. I also tried using the tubes themselves to just suck the water into them, and that worked fine as well.

Then i started mixing the paints and water using a mixing attachment to my cordless drill. I kept the drill on "screwing" mode, which resulted in slower spinning. (In hindsight, it looks like this was a mistake.) I mixed for a good while until i saw no more unevenness. The paint mix still looked pretty thick, so i decided to add another 4oz of water, and then mixed for a while longer until it seemed it had all been mixed together well.

I poured some of the mix into a tray to get ready to paint, and closed off the mixing bucket with the remainder of the paint. I had bought a 3/16 nap roller that was different from the one i had used before for my N8 OTS gray screen. When i started painting with it, i noticed a much more pronounced pattern / texture to the paint than i saw with my previous OTS solution. This could have been the paint, my mixing, or the roller. It's probably a little bit of all of the above.

The thing that alarmed me was that the paint looked all "blotchy" / "spongy". There was an obvious pattern of light and dark that sort of looked like the surface of a sponge. I attribute part of this to the roller, but i also probably didn't mix well / long enough. I did not want to abort halfway through though, so i just kept on going. I had expected i'd need to do a second coat, so this was no major setback.

As i let the first coat cry, it really looked rather . The pattern was very visible on program material, and it was worse in some areas than in others. It even felt like it was thicker in some places than in others. So i took a sanding sponge / block, and started lightly sanding the surface to even things out. I used circular motions and went over the whole screen a few times, concentrating on the main problem areas. This did help some, but clearly i would need another coat of paint.

When i went back to my mixing bucket, i felt that the paint was actually too thick still, so i added another 4oz of water. Then i mixed it all some more, but this time i used the "drill" speed setting on the drill. This resulting in much more aggressive mixing, which i think was much better than the slower speed i had used earlier. I used up an entire battery before finally deciding i had mixed long enough The viscosity of the paint looked about right after this. It was a little thinner than before, but not too runny. It was comparable to the viscosity of the base white paint basically. So all in all i ended up adding 16oz of water instead of the minimum of 8 mentioned in the recipe.

I also swapped out the roller and went back to my original roller - the yellow foam 3/16 nap. When i started painting with this slightly thinner mix with this other roller, the results were much better right away with a much finer texture / pattern. I painted the whole screen, then sat down and kept my fingers crossed that i had gotten a nice even coat. In most of my previous attempts i had found one thing or another wrong with the final coat i had put on. Apparently i'm just not a painter! This time though it looked like the coat had no unevenness in it anywhere. I was projecting some movie on it, and of course it looked all glittery to start with. I was a little worried about the silver creating too much glitter for my taste, but i just had to wait and see how it would dry.

As the paint dried, the screen got a lot more uneven! I was getting worried and frustrated. I clearly saw all kinds of unevenness, with some areas clearly brighter and more sparkly than others. I was halfway expecting that i'd have to start over, but it was getting late and it would have to wait until the next day. I already started going through the list of things to try - sanding, more thinning, other rollers etc. I just kept watching some movies and TV material to at least evaluate the black level and brightness / punchiness of the image, and was pleased to see that it looked much better than my N8 paint from before. Then "suddenly" it seemed that all the paint dried past a certain point, and all the unevenness and sparklyness disappeared! The screen looked great! I cued up the Hoth scene from Star Wars, as that would most certainly reveal any flaws in the finish, but was pleased to not seen anything catching my eye as the picture panned across my screen

So far i'm really liking the C&S Ultra result. It allows me to keep using the low output but quiet & color accurate mode on my projector while still getting a nice punchy picture. Blacks are obviously still gray, but they are certainly acceptable to me. All in all - success!

Thank for sharing these formulas with us here for us to try!
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post #58 of 161 Old 01-30-12, 12:01 PM
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Re: Cream&Sugarô Ultra

BTW - Michael's has a sale on the Liquitex of buy 2 get 1 free. Additionally they have a coupon on their site for 40% off of a single item. Normally a single tube is $4.99. With the sale and coupon the total for 4 tubes ended up being ~$13, or about $3.25 per tube. Not bad for being able to get in the car and get it instead of having to wait for it to get to your house
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post #59 of 161 Old 01-30-12, 02:33 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Cream&Sugarô Ultra

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Valorum wrote: View Post
So far i'm really liking the C&S Ultra result. It allows me to keep using the low output but quiet & color accurate mode on my projector while still getting a nice punchy picture. Blacks are obviously still gray, but they are certainly acceptable to me. All in all - success!

Thank for sharing these formulas with us here for us to try!
Yep, you gotta wait for the paint to dry before even thinking about projecting an image on it or it will scare you to death! Even then it may take the screen several weeks to totally cure since the mix is 50% artist quality acrylic paint, but any blotchiness should go away within several hours of drying.

Thanks for the detailed report!
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post #60 of 161 Old 02-01-12, 11:40 AM
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Re: Cream&Sugarô Ultra

Ah, the woes of the barely competent. Or perhaps not quite competent.

So to recap, I liked my (original craft pain recipe) cream and sugar screen pretty well. Then the kids gouged it with a light sabre and it took an arrow to the knee. No problem, a little drywall mud, a little sanding, a little Kilz. Find the left over C&S mark 1. Hmmn. Its pink. Stir it. Still pink. Shake it for ten minutes, wipe off the sweat. Still pink. Make a T stirrer and stir it with the drill. Maybe it dries grey. Paint. Nope. Still pink.

OK, paint's old. Make new stuff. Go back to the recipe. What's this? New recipe, old craft paint now unobtainable. Cool, its even lighter now; N 9.3. Sounds pretty light. Get the esteemed, knowledgeable, and very helpful creator to interpret the recipe into HD/Behr terms. Order the liquitex silver and wait for it to come in. Take the silver down to HD, tell them what I want, have them mix it, buy a clean gallon can, put as much of the silver in as I can, pour in the magenta tinted base. Shake for 10 minutes. Hmmmn... looks pink. Take the whole mess home, use 8 ounces of water in 4 aliquots to rinse out all the cans (the quart of base and the two plastic bottles of silver. Put the water in with the mixed paint. All the smaller cans and jars and receptacles look fairly clean. Shake the mix. Its late. Go to bed.

Get up this morning, have a cup of coffee, shake the mix. Hmmmn. Looks kinda pink. Get the drill out, blend it for ten minutes. Maybe not quite as pink, but still... scrape the inside of the can all around with a stick. No apparent clumps. Stir some more with the drill. Maybe it dries greyer.

This stuff is WAY lighter than the C&S mark 1, but unless my eyes deceive me, it still looks kinda pink. Hard to mess up C&S base... but maybe they managed it?

Some of the original C&S is still there on the borders, with the new, not quite dry C&S mk II next to it, and the ugly beige, gastroenteritis yellow wall on the other side (maybe that color is just skewing my cones). I know monitors, cameras, etc. play tricks, but what do y'all think of the tint in this picture? Nasty yellow beige on the left, C&S I in the middle, my new mix of C&S 2 on the right?

If the attachment didn't upload, the picture is also here: http://www.dftaylor.com/beige-c&s-1-vs-2.JPG
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-beige-c-s-1-vs-2.jpg  

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