Neutral Grays and Simple Off the Shelf Solutions - Page 5 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

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post #41 of 179 Old 06-30-07, 11:12 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Neutral Grays and Simple Off the Shelf Solutions

Quote:
wbassett wrote:
I do have color information on Pratt Lambert
Quote:
biglyle wrote: View Post
Are they posted anywhere? If so, where can I find them?
Sorry, I didn't see this post... I must have scrolled right by it!

Go here and you can put in a color value and look for a match in a variety of brands.

"Make everything as simple as possible, but no simpler." - Albert Einstein

"If all else fails, spin the cat."- Grzboken
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post #42 of 179 Old 06-30-07, 12:46 PM
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Re: Neutral Grays and Simple Off the Shelf Solutions

Thanks Bill.
post #43 of 179 Old 07-05-07, 02:56 PM
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Re: Neutral Grays and Simple Off the Shelf Solutions

WBassett, I haven't finished reading the whole thread yet, however, can I ask which projector you are using? I know you mentioned it's an old business projector but I was curios to know the model. I was gonna look up the specs of it to see how it might compare against my planned Benq w100 that I will be getting next week. Your daytime shots look amazing and if the Benq w100 is similar in light output to your projector and I might actually get similiar results to yours then I'm really thinking of using the same paint.

Thanks for all the research,
Harry

P.S. One more thing ... what size is your screen?

Last edited by Harry Muscle; 07-05-07 at 03:11 PM.
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post #44 of 179 Old 07-05-07, 04:38 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Neutral Grays and Simple Off the Shelf Solutions

It's a PG-C30XU, 1700 Lumens, 250:1 CR

I am working on getting a Panasonic PT-AX100U, but may be holding off now since the 1080p projectors are starting to come down in price.

My current screen is a 52x92" screen. You'd be hitting that with around 14fL of light in the same setup I have which is the same as what I am hitting my screen with. So you definitely can handle an N8 shade which is what Gray Screen is, but I wouldn't go any darker than that. I tend to refer the Munsell shades when talking about projector Lumens and screen shades. That way you know what is the maximum darkness shade you can use but it isn't referring you to any one specific DIY method. From there you can look at all the methods that are in that shade range and pick the one you like the most or feel the most comfortable building.

How much ambient light do you expect to have? You may have already mentioned that, and sorry if you did. If you aren't expecting massive amounts and only some incandescent lighting on at times, you may want to err on the safe side and go with an N8.5 shade.

Some of the N8 shades are Wilsonart Fashion Grey, Sherwin William's Gray Screen, True Value Winter Mountain, and Todd can answer which of the EasyFlex tints are in the N8 range. I really can't tell you what the color composition, Munsell equivalent, or color balance is on any of the advanced mixes you see out there. The people that developed those should be able to tell you more information on them, I haven't had any formally tested yet.

For N8.5 shades, I don't have any OTS colors I know of right now, but there is probably an EasyFlex shade in that range. I can tell you how to make one though

One thing to keep in mind is there may need some very slight tweaking with some of the simple methods, but the tweaks are not difficult... mainly things like adding a poly coat to Fashion Grey to eliminate any hot spotting or warm spotting. Or a poly coat to a simple OTS paint to boost the gain a little. It has been found that the people that have tried poly on the neutral/near neutral grays were not all happy with the results. Yes it lowers the specular gain on laminates, but with the paints it has been shown to smooth out small green or blue color pushes which indicates it does an overall color shift. The reason people may not have liked it with something like Winter Mountain is WM is almost dead on neutral at D65. In this case the poly most likely moved it away from neutral unlike SS which it moves it closer to neutral, does that make sense?

"Make everything as simple as possible, but no simpler." - Albert Einstein

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post #45 of 179 Old 07-05-07, 08:36 PM
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Re: Neutral Grays and Simple Off the Shelf Solutions

The projector will be setup in the basement, which has a 6' x 5' sliding door window which is frosted glass. The rest of the lighting is provided by dimmable incandescent lighting. However since this will be replacing my TV I really like having the option of watching without having to dim all the lights down real low hence my quest for a screen that deals good with ambient light. Btw, the room is 16 x 16 with yellow walls and a white ceiling (low ceiling of 7') in case that matters.

After having read a lot of your information the ony thing that concerns me now about the EasyFlex color is the fact that it's not as neutral and I like your comments about having a screen with less red to it since it helps balance out the incandescent lighting, which when dimmed looks very red.

Thanks,
Harry

P.S. I'm gonna play around with that RGB Match calculator to see if I can find something close to N8.5 ... I did actually find something closer to ~8.7, I think (219 222 222 - called Iced Cube Silver in Benjamin Moore paint).
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post #46 of 179 Old 07-06-07, 05:23 AM
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Re: Neutral Grays and Simple Off the Shelf Solutions

I could get something to block the window if needed.

Thanks,
Harry

Last edited by Harry Muscle; 07-06-07 at 09:54 PM.
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post #47 of 179 Old 07-07-07, 09:16 AM
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Re: Neutral Grays and Simple Off the Shelf Solutions

For folks that like Ben Moore- have stores near them.
Bill also mentioned to me, that the paint I am using is pretty neutral.

Benjamin Moore- "Pebble Beach"

Please LMK if thats incorrect Bill-

Gary
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post #48 of 179 Old 07-07-07, 07:57 PM
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Re: Neutral Grays and Simple Off the Shelf Solutions

Which sheen are you using? Any top coat?

I like Benjamin Moore since it's cataloged on www.easyrgb.com so it's nice an easy to find and compare colors, etc., however, I'm having a hard time straying away from the research that tiddler has done, especially since he's given me some nice recommendations, not only on color but also on sheen.

Harry
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post #49 of 179 Old 07-07-07, 08:17 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Neutral Grays and Simple Off the Shelf Solutions

I am using the matte finish. Todd has found that the matte poly coating doesn't seem to be as big of a benefit with the matte finish as it does with a flat finish. In all practicality, if the paint is a flat finish the use of a matte poly top coating can boost the gain. Some say this is removing it from the 'Simple' arena and people should just jump up to the complex mixes. That is certainly an option, but honestly I don't know what the color breakdown is of the advanced mixes. I suspect most lean more towards red since red tends to make things look like they 'pop' more, but as far as color accuracy it will have a definite shift.

Like I mentioned though, I really don't have any information as far as color balance or gain on the advanced mixes so that would have to be provided by the people that developed those. As far as EasyFlex and poly, for the most part that two step method applies here too since Todd is working on the same goal as this thread and that is easy solutions based on a neutral palate. If the poly works for a neutral tint obtained from Behr, it should work for these too. I might want to try a test panel first just to make sure though. The poly does change the over all color balance ever so slightly and it could take some of these neutrals away from neutral, so a test panel is always a good idea.

Still the matte finish does bump up the gain over a flat surface sheen, so those methods that already come in matte don't seem to require a matte poly coating.

"Make everything as simple as possible, but no simpler." - Albert Einstein

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post #50 of 179 Old 07-07-07, 09:38 PM
 
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Re: Neutral Grays and Simple Off the Shelf Solutions

Durability and wash-ability should play some part in your decision. I don't think I would ever recommend the Behr Flat UPW #1050 for a long term screen solution. It makes a good base and with a poly top coat it becomes durable and washable. If it's a fixed screen you just never know when something will get splattered on it. I suspect blood and red wine don't wash off of a flat paint very well. A matte painted or poly top coated screen would be better. A laminate would be by far the best for possible abusive situations.

I also want to be clear about the brand name paints. I have heard from several different sources that Pratt & Lambert paints are very good and level out extremely well when rolled. I suspect the Sherwin Williams and Benjamin Moore paints are in that class of quality as well. So Behr may be everywhere, but with a brand name paint you just won't care. Oh Oh It's happening again!
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