Neutral Grays and Simple Off the Shelf Solutions - Page 6 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

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post #51 of 179 Old 07-07-07, 09:46 PM
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Re: Neutral Grays and Simple Off the Shelf Solutions

"Which sheen are you using? Any top coat?

I like Benjamin Moore since it's cataloged on www.easyrgb.com so it's nice an easy to find and compare colors, etc., however, I'm having a hard time straying away from the research that tiddler has done, especially since he's given me some nice recommendations, not only on color but also on sheen."

I'm using Flat- with 2 coats of Behr #780 as a topcoat.
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post #52 of 179 Old 08-25-07, 04:31 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Neutral Grays and Simple Off the Shelf Solutions

For anyone interested in the True Value Winter Mountain and Winter Mist, I ran into a minor problem with my local True Value. They said those colors do not exist.

I called the main head quarters of True Value and they said any store can still make these paints. If a store insists that they are not valid colors they said to tell them to check the main computer or call the main office and they would tell them what to do.

Also I spoke to Xrite and they provided me with a formula for N7 that can be made anywhere. I'm verifying that right now as well as waiting for a call back from Xrite to see if they know formulas for N8 and N9.

N7 is too dark in my opinion, but if anyone is interested in the mix for Behr or Sherwin Williams let me know.

"Make everything as simple as possible, but no simpler." - Albert Einstein

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post #53 of 179 Old 08-25-07, 10:31 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Neutral Grays and Simple Off the Shelf Solutions

Doesn't look to be, different pigments at different ratios. It's hard to tell since this is very dark, around 175 175 175 in shade. An N8 and N9 version would obviously have less in it but I don't know the ratios yet, I'm still waiting to hear back from XRite.

"Make everything as simple as possible, but no simpler." - Albert Einstein

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post #54 of 179 Old 08-25-07, 10:56 PM
 
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Re: Neutral Grays and Simple Off the Shelf Solutions

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Doesn't look to be, different pigments at different ratios. It's hard to tell since this is very dark, around 175 175 175 in shade. An N8 and N9 version would obviously have less in it but I don't know the ratios yet, I'm still waiting to hear back from XRite.
What is the tint formula for the Behr UPW?
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post #55 of 179 Old 08-26-07, 02:21 PM
 
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Re: Neutral Grays and Simple Off the Shelf Solutions

It might be just what the doctor ordered with a pearl clear coat. Remember I was using EasyFlex-12 as the base for a pearl clear coat using the Folkart Pearlizing Medium. The result was similar to my own EasyFlex-06 screen with a little better uniformity across the screen.
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post #56 of 179 Old 08-26-07, 04:29 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Neutral Grays and Simple Off the Shelf Solutions

The two base colors are Behr Ultra Pure White Interior Flat (1500) and Sherwin William's Luminous White Interior Flat.

Quick side note: Sherwin William's Luminous White seems to be their answer to UPW, which up until now was the brightest and whitest white I have seen, other than Rosco's Off Broadway White White (an actual screen paint for $28 a gallon) This isn't the $42 a gallon issue either like the Duration brand has and some people don't like, it's around $14 for a quart and rolls extremely well.

Here is what's in it, and there are a few interesting and notable ingrediants:
  • Water
  • Titanium Dioxide
  • Vinyl Polymer
  • Calcinied Clay
  • Calcium Carbonate
  • Mica
  • Ethylene Glycol
  • Cristobalite
  • Quartz

UPW has the following ingrediants:
  • Anhydrous aluminum silicate
  • Acrylic polymer(s)
  • Titanium dioxide
  • Nepheline Syenite
  • Ethylene glycol
  • Hydrophobically-modified polyether solution
  • 2-ethylhexyl benzoate
  • Hydrated aluminum-magnesium silicate
  • Palygorskite
  • Silica, amorphous, precipitated and gel

Some of the notable ingrediants that should stand out with the Luminous White are- It's a vinyl polymer, it uses Titanium Dioxide as does UPW but has Calcium Carbonate in it as well, and it also contains mica.

I know I have previously made some comments about mica and pearlescents and stated Aluminum Oxide was a better way to go. I still favor Al2O3 (Aluminum Oxide) since it is not translucent and doesn't cause any prism effect, but mica with controlled usage can have its benefits too. Mica is more of the older ways and Al2O3 is something new being used.

So an immediate concern I have would be adding a mica based top coating to a base that already has mica in it. I think it could possibly be too much and the Luminous White may not even need the added mica to a top coating (or a top coating at all) since it already has a controlled amount calculated and added by the manufacturer. Of course testing is always something that needs to be tried at least, so until then that's just my two cents on things. My suggestion right now for Luminous White would be if a clear coating is desired for protective reasons, stick with the matte poly until further pearl coating tests can be done and validated.

For a Munsell N7 neutral, and again this comes straight from Xrite, not a guess, the tints and ratios required are:
Lamp Black 0 15 1
Brown Oxide 0 3 1
Medium Yellow 0 1 1

This is for a quart. As I mentioned I am checking with Xrite to see if they have a formal N8 and N9 ration that was also tested like the N7.

Warning Note: N7 is a very dark gray compared to any of the other screen methods presented and I do not recommend this shade for anyone unless they have an extremely bright projector and totally uncontrollable ambient lighting.

"Make everything as simple as possible, but no simpler." - Albert Einstein

"If all else fails, spin the cat."- Grzboken
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post #57 of 179 Old 08-26-07, 04:49 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Neutral Grays and Simple Off the Shelf Solutions

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tiddler wrote: View Post
It might be just what the doctor ordered with a pearl clear coat. Remember I was using EasyFlex-12 as the base for a pearl clear coat using the Folkart Pearlizing Medium. The result was similar to my own EasyFlex-06 screen with a little better uniformity across the screen.
Todd did Behr run any tests on EasyFlex-12? If so we can determine what Munsell shade it corresponds to. That would be excellent if we can identify the EasyFlex by Munsell rating. That's usually how I recommend screen options to people rather than a specific method, and without knowing how they correlate I may inadvertently overlook something. I assure you if I do it's not intentional.

Soon we'll have new spectro data on all the DIY applications as well as commercial offerings. I even hope to get reviews and testing done on all of the commercial screen paints if they chose to participate.

There are a few other things in the works too, but right now I have a very full plate as does mech and we need to get all our reviews done. I also need to work out some pretty big kinks in the Flash module I am working on for screen recommendations based on lumen ratings, room settings, and screen size. There are a lot of variables to get working together.

I think though that by the end of 2007 we will have all Munsell neutrals identified that are extremely easily obtainable. Now we have a vinyl polymer base with built in mica, Calcium Carbonate, Titanium Doixide... I think we have the makings of an extremely good application coming.

For those that desire complex, I'm working on a custom advance mix that utilizes Aluminum and of course... will adhere to our D65 neutral reference and specification standards.

Everything of course won't be presented all at once because there are only so many hours in the day. Some good things are coming though.

"Make everything as simple as possible, but no simpler." - Albert Einstein

"If all else fails, spin the cat."- Grzboken
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post #58 of 179 Old 08-26-07, 05:03 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Neutral Grays and Simple Off the Shelf Solutions

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Yeah but it would be pointless if they can give us a N8 or N9 shade. But I suspect we'd have to wait until Bill talks to them again. And that'd be tomorrow at the soonest I'd suspect.

mech
I'll actually be in New Jersey for some classes Monday and Tuesday. Kara at XRite and the local rep have my cell phone so maybe I'll hear from them before Wednesday, but if not I will call them for a follow up. We'll nail this down soon though.

"Make everything as simple as possible, but no simpler." - Albert Einstein

"If all else fails, spin the cat."- Grzboken
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post #59 of 179 Old 08-26-07, 07:00 PM
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Re: Neutral Grays and Simple Off the Shelf Solutions

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wbassett wrote: View Post
The two base colors are Behr Ultra Pure White Interior Flat (1500) and Sherwin William's Luminous White Interior Flat.


For a Munsell N7 neutral, and again this comes straight from Xrite, not a guess, the tints and ratios required are:
Lamp Black 0 15 1
Brown Oxide 0 3 1
Medium Yellow 0 1 1

This is for a quart. As I mentioned I am checking with Xrite to see if they have a formal N8 and N9 ration that was also tested like the N7.

Warning Note: N7 is a very dark gray compared to any of the other screen methods presented and I do not recommend this shade for anyone unless they have an extremely bright projector and totally uncontrollable ambient lighting.
Bill

The formula is exactly the same for either base?

Thanks!
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post #60 of 179 Old 08-26-07, 07:14 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Neutral Grays and Simple Off the Shelf Solutions

According to XRite they are but I still want confirmation on both as well as any N8 and N9's they provide to me.

"Make everything as simple as possible, but no simpler." - Albert Einstein

"If all else fails, spin the cat."- Grzboken
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