Screen material/paint recommendation? - Page 2 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

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post #11 of 44 Old 08-11-12, 01:59 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Screen material/paint recommendation?

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Harpmaker wrote: View Post
Are you measuring the light striking the screen (i1's light sensor pointing toward PJ) or the light being reflected from your screen (sensor pointing toward screen)?
I was getting it from the screen on a 100% white pattern.

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The "ultra whites" from Valspar and Behr don't hide or level as well as the SW ProClassic.
Sorry, what does this mean?

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All in all, experimenting yourself to find the type of screen you like is time well invested.
Yeah, definitely sounds like it. I'll at least need to paint some decent sized samples to see if a grey or white looks better to me at the bare minimum.

Thanks for all the help and info.
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post #12 of 44 Old 08-11-12, 04:57 PM
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Re: Screen material/paint recommendation?

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curttard wrote: View Post
I was getting it from the screen on a 100% white pattern.
Then at least part of the difference in brightness between my calculations made from data at PC and your screen reading with a meter is due to the gain difference between your BOC and a 1.0 screen (a 1.0 gain screen will reflect all the light that strikes it - light in = light out. BTW, you can't reliable measure screen gain by this method, but they would be better then pure guesses. You could take the value of the light hitting the screen (sensor at screen, but pointing toward the PJ) and then take the value of the reflected light with the sensor as close to the screen as possible and calculate the difference. This would only give a "ballpark" gain figure since truly accurate gain testing requires a 1 spot meter.

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Sorry, what does this mean?
Both Valspar and Behr paints call their pure white latex paints "Ultra White". Compared to Sherwin-Williams ProClassic B20 series the Valspar and Behr paints don't "hide" the color of the previous paint layer if repainting; it may take 2 or 3 coats to equal the hiding power of a single coat of ProClassic. ProClassic is also designed specifically to flow to a smooth finish after rolling. The Valspar and Behr paints flow too, just not as well.

All gain that comes from a paint not containing any reflective elements (like aluminum or mica) will come from surface gloss alone.

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Yeah, definitely sounds like it. I'll at least need to paint some decent sized samples to see if a grey or white looks better to me at the bare minimum.
I personally have found that 1x4 foot test panels are all I need to judge the performance of a mix. I make mine from inexpensive tempered hardboard from Lowe's or Home Depot (they will cut a large 4x8 foot panel into 1x4 foot panels for free). I prime the panels with a white primer (I haven't found a "bad" brand of primer yet and have used about half a dozen types) and then when that is dry (I try to wait 24 hours) I spray or roll on my test mix.

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Thanks for all the help and info.
No worries! Glad to try and help out.
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post #13 of 44 Old 08-11-12, 06:16 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Screen material/paint recommendation?

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The SW ProClassic B20 series paint in satin finish is not quite as bright at N 9.5, but you would have to see a N9.7 and a N9.5 side-by-side to tell the difference. The ProClassic is designed to flow well after rolling to give the smoothest rollable finish.

The "ultra whites" from Valspar and Behr don't hide or level as well as the SW ProClassic. The Valspar Ultra Premium paint in eggshell can be used as a screen without hot spotting, the satin can't. I believe the same goes for Behr paints, but I don't remember specifically testing Behr eggshell.
One last question (for now ) -- when you say the satin can't be used as a screen without hot spotting, do you mean just for the Valspar? I.e., is the SW ProClassic B20 satin going to hotspot?
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post #14 of 44 Old 08-11-12, 08:32 PM
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Re: Screen material/paint recommendation?

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curttard wrote: View Post
One last question (for now ) -- when you say the satin can't be used as a screen without hot spotting, do you mean just for the Valspar? I.e., is the SW ProClassic B20 satin going to hotspot?
The only satin finish paints that I know of that will work as a front projection screen are the Sherwin-Williams paints(Duration and ProClassic B20), and even these will hot spot if the color is much darker that N8. I know that satin finish in Valspar (sold at Lowe's), Behr and Glidden Premium (sold at Home Depot) WILL hot spot. There is no standard nomenclature for paint finishes between brands except for FLAT finish. One brands eggshell may have the same gloss as another brands satin. Each brand has to be tested on it's own.
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post #15 of 44 Old 08-22-12, 06:58 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Screen material/paint recommendation?

Ok, hope you're ready for another round of questions :P

In your SILVER clone thread you compared several paints, including the Sherwin ProClassic from the ProjectorCentral article and C&S Ultra.

I took your pics into Photoshop and checked out various values using the eyedropped tool and looking at the Brightness (in HSB) and Lightness (in L*a*b). In the pic comparing the four panels side by side with a full greyscale pattern, C&S Ultra has both slightly brighter/lighter whites AND slightly darker blacks than the SW (I used the lowest and highest greyscale steps that didn't clip the camera), which would seem to be the ideal situation, right?

However, the difference is pretty tiny -- it's like 1% in Brightness and just 1 in Lightness, and not actually visible to the eye at all, even when cutting out the C&S panel and sliding it right over next to the SW. Do you see more of a difference in person? Because otherwise it doesn't seem worth it to go to the trouble of mixing paints for a difference I can't possibly imagine would be visible in anything other than a side-by-side A/B comparison (and possibly not even then). Is it just the improvement in ambient light performance?

I got the same results with your pic comparing two versions of C&S Ultra with SW and SW Colors-to-go. Tiny bit brighter on the C&S. No greyscale comparison in that thread though to compare blacks.

And last question, if I send you a piece of blackout cloth, could I prevail upon you to take a pic of a greyscale on that alongside SW and C&S Ultra?
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post #16 of 44 Old 08-22-12, 08:13 PM
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Re: Screen material/paint recommendation?

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curttard wrote: View Post
Ok, hope you're ready for another round of questions :P
No problem.

Quote:
In your SILVER clone thread you compared several paints, including the Sherwin ProClassic from the ProjectorCentral article and C&S Ultra.

I took your pics into Photoshop and checked out various values using the eyedropped tool and looking at the Brightness (in HSB) and Lightness (in L*a*b). In the pic comparing the four panels side by side with a full greyscale pattern, C&S Ultra has both slightly brighter/lighter whites AND slightly darker blacks than the SW (I used the lowest and highest greyscale steps that didn't clip the camera), which would seem to be the ideal situation, right?
Right. C&S™ Ultra is a darker paint than SW 'Extra White' so it has slightly better contrast and black levels, but at the same time the reflective elements and gloss level make it have white levels on par or exceeding 'Extra White', and all without hot spotting. BTW. it's my PJ that is clipping not my camera (the Viewsonic PJ503D is that bad!).

Quote:
However, the difference is pretty tiny -- it's like 1% in Brightness and just 1 in Lightness, and not actually visible to the eye at all, even when cutting out the C&S panel and sliding it right over next to the SW. Do you see more of a difference in person? Because otherwise it doesn't seem worth it to go to the trouble of mixing paints for a difference I can't possibly imagine would be visible in anything other than a side-by-side A/B comparison (and possibly not even then). Is it just the improvement in ambient light performance?
You have got to be careful using a color picker tool since they usually only measure one pixel (or a very small group of pixels) and pixelation and quantization of the image can come into play and generate inaccurate results. But you are right, the differences are minimal and while they were visible to me (a bit more so than in the photos IIRC) some people wouldn't consider those differences important. Personally, I think there is little sense in having screen shades less than whole N values apart because while the difference between a N7.5 and an N8 screen is visible it's far from a night and day difference. Some folks would even say that there isn't all that much difference between whole N value jumps either. For others the devil is in the details.

Quote:
I got the same results with your pic comparing two versions of C&S Ultra with SW and SW Colors-to-go. Tiny bit brighter on the C&S. No greyscale comparison in that thread though to compare blacks.

And last question, if I send you a piece of blackout cloth, could I prevail upon you to take a pic of a greyscale on that alongside SW and C&S Ultra?
Rather than going to the expense of sending a 1 x 4 foot section of BOC why don't you just send me about a 1" square swatch of it. It may be the same BOC that I already have from Jo Anns. Or if you want to throw caution to the wind send the 1 x 4 foot BOC section and I'll compare it to my C&S™ Ultra and SW ProClassic 'Extra White' panels.
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post #17 of 44 Old 08-22-12, 09:02 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Screen material/paint recommendation?

I'd be happy to send a panel of a good size to compare to those others. It is from Joann's in fact, I believe it's "budget blackout".
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post #18 of 44 Old 08-22-12, 09:28 PM
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Re: Screen material/paint recommendation?

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curttard wrote: View Post
I'd be happy to send a panel of a good size to compare to those others. It is from Joann's in fact, I believe it's "budget blackout".
I believe that is what mine is called, but BOC was not meant to be seen so I don't know how standardized they keep the color., there could be considerable color differences (for screen usage) from batch to batch. PM me for my address.
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post #19 of 44 Old 08-22-12, 10:47 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Screen material/paint recommendation?

Last question for tonight, would 1qt of Valspar plus the 16oz of Liquitex be enough for my screen? 2.35, 124" wide or thereabouts, I think that's about 47 sq ft.

Thanks again for all the info.

PM sent

Last edited by curttard; 08-23-12 at 04:24 PM.
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post #20 of 44 Old 08-23-12, 10:19 PM
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Re: Screen material/paint recommendation?

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curttard wrote: View Post
Last question for tonight, would 1qt of Valspar plus the 16oz of Liquitex be enough for my screen? 2.35, 124" wide or thereabouts, I think that's about 47 sq ft.

Thanks again for all the info.

PM sent
Yes. That mix would add up to 48 fl. oz. even without the water needed to thin it for rolling or spraying.

As a general rule-of-thumb I like to have 1 fl. oz. of paint or screen mix for every square foot of screen area, but many folks haven't needed that much to do two rolled coats (~ equal to 4 or 5 sprayed coats).
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