Screen material/paint recommendation? - Page 4 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

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post #31 of 44 Old 10-01-12, 07:48 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Screen material/paint recommendation?

What kind of speed does the best job mixing? As fast as I can get without it flying all over the place?
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post #32 of 44 Old 10-01-12, 08:26 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Screen material/paint recommendation?

Kitchen mixer got it smooth as silk, thanks!

I know you don't sand after the last coat of C&S, but should I sand between coats?
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post #33 of 44 Old 10-01-12, 09:34 PM
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Re: Screen material/paint recommendation?

It's a bit late now, but I would have used the slowest mixer speed that got the job done.

As for sanding between coats, I don't recommend it unless you are seeing a texture difference between areas of the screen. If you sand dried but uncured paint you tend to gouge the paint off the surface rather than merely removing a small amount just from the surface. Uncured paint will also tend to "pill" on you. This is where small round balls of the gummy uncured paint collect on the surface of the sandpaper or sanding block and act as ball bearings so the sandpaper/block stops cutting well.
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post #34 of 44 Old 10-01-12, 09:40 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Screen material/paint recommendation?

Ah, thanks. I did actually use the slowest speed, although it seemed quite fast.
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post #35 of 44 Old 10-02-12, 11:03 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Screen material/paint recommendation?

I think I'm just terrible at spraying. It seems like no matter what, I'm spraying too much paint. I'm moving quickly, I'm 14" (or more) away, and my paint flows through the nylon strainer easily.

I used 8oz of Valspar and 8oz of Liquitex, plus water to thin appropriately, and only got 4 coats on my 2' x 3' panel. There were 2oz left in the container but my bottom pass had begun to sputter due to the sprayer design (what a terrible idea, by the way, making sure you can never use all your paint). The screen is not rough but is certainly not approaching "glass" or "baby bottom" smooth. Looks orange peel-y to me. And it takes an hour, minimum, for a coat to dry in a basement room that is about 70 degrees.

Maybe I'm just overlapping too much? Each pass should drop down what, about 4"?

Last edited by curttard; 10-02-12 at 11:59 AM.
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post #36 of 44 Old 10-02-12, 03:11 PM
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Re: Screen material/paint recommendation?

Quote:
curttard wrote: View Post
I think I'm just terrible at spraying. It seems like no matter what, I'm spraying too much paint. I'm moving quickly, I'm 14" (or more) away, and my paint flows through the nylon strainer easily.

I used 8oz of Valspar and 8oz of Liquitex, plus water to thin appropriately, and only got 4 coats on my 2' x 3' panel. There were 2oz left in the container but my bottom pass had begun to sputter due to the sprayer design (what a terrible idea, by the way, making sure you can never use all your paint). The screen is not rough but is certainly not approaching "glass" or "baby bottom" smooth. Looks orange peel-y to me. And it takes an hour, minimum, for a coat to dry in a basement room that is about 70 degrees.

Maybe I'm just overlapping too much? Each pass should drop down what, about 4"?
With our mixes and OTS paints you don't need a "baby bottom smooth" screen, what you need is a fairly smooth surface (NOT like cinder block though) and for it to be the same texture over the whole screen surface.

That sprayer has a control to limit the amount of paint that it shoots, try adjusting it down so you don't have to run like the wind to prevent runs and sags. I have to confess that I do own a sprayer like yours, but I haven't even taken it out of the shipping carton yet because it uses a bottom feeding cup. I MUCH prefer a gravity fed gun - when they run out of paint there is no sputtering or spitting so for doing screen test panels I'll stick to my compressor-powered el cheapo Harbor Freight HVLP rig.

Overlap each pass by at least 50%. How wide that 50% is depends on how wide a fan your gun is spraying with the paint you are shooting. There is usually a control for that too, be sure it is set for the widest fan.
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post #37 of 44 Old 10-02-12, 09:52 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Screen material/paint recommendation?

Uh oh. So naturally when I go for the first "money" coat of RS-MM-LL, it seems like I may have added too much water. Came out in far-spaced wet grey dots here and there, very watery. I guess my only path is to mix a bit more of the RS-MM-LL, which will be tricky because it will be small amounts, and add it in to thicken the pot?

later edit: Yeah, I don't know what's going on. I added the remaining 2oz of Liquitex plus the respective amounts of the rest and no additional water, remixed and strained, and I'm having the same problem. Instead of a finely atomized mist I'm getting very far apart wet splotches.

Could this be too *little* water? It doesn't seem like it though, it flows through the strainer fine (it seems).

(cross-posted to AVS; I wish everyone could just get along!)
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post #38 of 44 Old 10-03-12, 01:01 AM
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Re: Screen material/paint recommendation?

Quote:
curttard wrote: View Post
Uh oh. So naturally when I go for the first "money" coat of RS-MM-LL, it seems like I may have added too much water. Came out in far-spaced wet grey dots here and there, very watery. I guess my only path is to mix a bit more of the RS-MM-LL, which will be tricky because it will be small amounts, and add it in to thicken the pot?

later edit: Yeah, I don't know what's going on. I added the remaining 2oz of Liquitex plus the respective amounts of the rest and no additional water, remixed and strained, and I'm having the same problem. Instead of a finely atomized mist I'm getting very far apart wet splotches.

Could this be too *little* water? It doesn't seem like it though, it flows through the strainer fine (it seems).
It sounds like the sprayer may not be working right. Check your manual's troubleshooting section (if it has one, most do) and be sure all parts are assembled correctly and working. You could also try spraying some UPW again just to check the gun. If the UPW sprays as it did before then there is a problem with the RS-MM-LL mix otherwise it's the sprayer.

Quote:
(cross-posted to AVS; I wish everyone could just get along!)
Yeah, that would be great wouldn't it? Unfortunately there is too wide a philosophical gap between their DIY screen forum and ours. They totally disregard scientific principles there (even ignoring the laws of physics) supplanting them with their own theories and wishful thinking. A case in point is the fact that they try to use a paint strainer "sock" to gauge if a paint mix is ready to spray; there are so many things wrong with that method I won't go into it here. The point is that the sprayer comes with a paint cup that is designed to measure paint flow (both viscosity and rheology) which they advocate people not use and instead pour the mixed paint through a sock filter and judge the flow rate "by eye". Wow.
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post #39 of 44 Old 10-04-12, 07:33 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Screen material/paint recommendation?

Well, it's done and hanging. I can tell already the grain is going to keep this from being a keeper. That's not a problem with the RS-MM-LL, it's a problem with my painting technique I guess, since I had it with the UPW as well. Skies and light colored areas are like they're under frosted glass. I'm off camping now, will probably buy a new piece of BOC when I get back and just go back to ol' faithful. My hat's off to those who can get "smooth as glass" finishes.
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post #40 of 44 Old 10-07-12, 10:45 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Screen material/paint recommendation?

Might as well keep my cross-posting alive:

Ok, so it's a given that my texture problems are the result of too much paint -- as indicated by the resulting texture, the excessive drying times of about an hour per coat, and possibly by the fact that I used 8+oz per coat -- a problem that can be alleviated by using a smaller needle. But since so many others have gotten great results with the stock needle, presumably we can pin my failing on something other than strictly the needle. What all are the factors that would cause too much paint to be laid down?

Moving too slowly. I don't think this was the case; if anything I feel like I moved too quickly across the screen.
Not enough water? This also doesn't seem to be the case if I'm understanding correctly; it poured easily through the nylon strainer and very quickly through the viscosity cup.
Too close to the screen? I don't think this was it either; if anything I feel like I may have been too far. The spray pattern was quite tall.

Which seems the most likely culprit? I think I still don't quite understand the effects of too much versus too little water in the mix. I think it's possible I used too much overlap as well.

Okay, first impressions of the screen: I don't consider the supposed hotspotting or limited viewing angle of the paint to be issues, at all. Neither are even vaguely noticeable during any actual viewing by me or anyone else who has seen the screen. When I (and probably others) hear "viewing angle" talk, I am imagining what I see when I look at an LCD off-angle, or a DLP rear-projection television. This is not even close to being in that ballpark. When I put up an image and walk to the side I simply don't notice any dropoff; that's about all there is to it. I have not yet taken off-axis photos; I don't doubt they will show that, objectively, there IS significant brightness dropoff, but it simply isn't an actual viewing concern in this case as far as I'm concerned.

Same goes for hotspotting. First of all, I guess I am not in much of a position to comment on it given my projector's obvious uniformity issues (making a "hotspot" apparent even on unpainted BOC). Secondly, again, I just don't see it in any actual video watching. Any given frame of a video is going to have so many textures, colors, light/dark values, that trying to tell that one area is unintentionally lighter than another is going to be exceedingly difficult even in a still frame. Given motion; changing lighting; constantly changing camera shots; and the fact that you will actually be paying attention to the action, characters, etc; and then given the fact that we are watching on screens large enough that we probably (in my case certainly) cannot take in the whole frame simultaneously -- noticing "hotspotting" that is anything short of the effect of a flashlight being shown on the screen is simply not going to happen IMO. So while the hotspotting of this mix could be quite noticeable in a flat, solid test pattern; or, with more effort, in a still frame of actual video content: I just don't see it affecting my viewing experience in the slightest.

Beyond that, my first impression is that it is brighter than my BOC, but with correspondingly lighter blacks. No earth-shaking revelation there I guess! From a quick comparison of the few test photos I've done of the RS-MM-LL with the UPW, it actually looks very similar in terms of whites and blacks. I will post the comparison pics in a couple days when I've had time to take more. I'm also going to pick up another yard or so of BOC to compare it directly rather than just through photos. I have a 2' x 3' panel that I'm going to paint Cream&Sugar Ultra as well; that should have been done already, but like an idiot, when I mixed and sprayed the paint for that, I had somehow gotten it into my head that the tubes of Liquitex were 8oz instead of 4oz, so there is half as much of the Silver as there should have been -- so it's not actually C&S.

Ambient performance: Unfortunately I didn't take ambient shots of the BOC and UPW to compare. Partly because it's not a concern for me but mostly because I just forgot. My impression is that it's not far off from the others; in other words, stuff like sports and talk shows and sitcoms are entirely watchable with a reading lamp on or the overhead light in the space adjoining this on, but I would never consider watching a movie or anything with lots of darks in it with lights on.
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