Seminar room in warehouse - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com
 
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post #1 of 8 Old 11-21-12, 01:16 PM Thread Starter
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Seminar room in warehouse

First, this site is a great resource. Thank you to all of you that make it so.

I have been floating around trying to read through the sales hype of projection screen paint. It is nice to see some real science and experience behind the evals.

Projector - Optoma EP776
Screen size - 10’w x 8’h

I am setting up an area in a warehouse for seminars. Most seminars start in evening and end at night. Only sometimes will we be doing daytime events.

I also want to be able to use this for movie nights. Of course, at night we can have this area very dark. Currently the wall is painted with a satin white and it is not too bad at all for the purpose of powerpoints.
My investigation reading threads suggest: Sherwin-Williams ProClassic Series B20 tinted to their own color SW 'Unique Gray'

Is this the latest thinking in paint? I expect my wall is not going to be expert flat surface but we are working it a bit now. I mention this because I expect it would affect hotspots and consistency.



Thanks all.
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post #2 of 8 Old 11-21-12, 06:39 PM
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Don
 
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Re: Seminar room in warehouse

Welcome to HTS JMTM!

Yeah, the amount of misinformation and blatant untruths about screen paint performance on the web is staggering, glad you found us! We do our best to accurately report screen performance (DIY and Commercial) after samples are subjected to industry standard testing protocols. We don't sell screens or screen paints, or build HT's for a living pushing our own products, so we have no agenda other than telling the truth. It's funny how some don't like us for doing that.

The Optoma EP776 is a conference room PJ so don't expect it to perform like a PJ designed for Home Theater use, but even then picture quality can be surprisingly good. What usually suffers with these PJ's are black levels. A gray paint can help here, but don't expect miracles.

Something that will affect performance with a screen with appreciable gain is whether the PJ is ceiling or table mounted. I can't tell which you are using from the photos. In your situation a screen with gain could actually produce a dimmer image than if a lower gain screen was used if your PJ is table mounted since the added reflectance of the screen would be going above the viewers eyes.

I have several questions for you.
  • 1. Which is more important, presentation image quality or movie image quality?
  • 2. You say your screen is 10' wide by 8' tall, that comes out to a 154" diagonal screen with an aspect ratio of 1.25:1. That is an odd size for your PJ which has a native AR of 4:3 (1.3333:1). Are you using a 4:3 image and just not filling the screen?
  • 3. Are you going to roll the paint or spray it on?

Right now I'm thinking that a N8 gray paint (N10=pure white, N0=pure black) would work well for you as a movie screen, and it will probably work OK as a presentation screen too since in presentation modes the EP776 has double the lumen output.

My only hesitation is the sheen of the paint used. The ProClassic satin paint is close to hot spotting, most don't have that problem, but one member here did and had to go to a SW paint in flat finish. Since your screen is 80 square feet you will need more than a quart which normally means one buys a full gallon. A quart will theoretically cover that much, but you are leaving no room for error, and I also think the coverage listed on the can is only for a single coat although I may be wrong about that; in general at least 2 coats are required for a screen. The SW Cashmere paint is supposed to roll on and smooth out well. but I have never used any myself so I can't comment from experience. I would recommend the Sherwin-Williams Cashmere Interior Latex Flat Enamel paint in flat finish tinted to SW 'Unique Gray'. The SW paints are more expensive than the paints from the "box stores", but coupons are often available with as much as a 40% discount.
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post #3 of 8 Old 11-21-12, 07:33 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Seminar room in warehouse

Thanks for the response.

Originally the wall was painted with Kelly Moore Kel-Pro Interior Latex Semi-gloss enamel 750-100 white. I thought it looked great in the dark and pretty good at night with just enough lighting for a seminar/classroom setting (bright enough to do worksheets and not want to go to sleep).

The projector is ceiling mounted. I must note that at this time I have the projector hanging to low and actually have to tilt it up at a slight angle. I will fix this – another foot higher.

Ultimately, my goal is to get better performance with ambient light (and hide the sheetrock tape).
1. Which is more important, presentation image quality or movie image quality?
• Presentation overrides movie image.
2. You say your screen is 10' wide by 8' tall, that comes out to a 154" diagonal screen with an aspect ratio of 1.25:1 That is an odd size for your PJ which has a native AR of 4:3 (1.3333:1). Are you using a 4:3 image and just not filling the screen?
• I was going to mask around the projected image. I think it is 8 tall and I know it is 10 wide. I better check that it is filling the screen.
3. Are you going to roll the paint or spray it on?
• I would rather roll but I can bring a professional painter in to spray also.


Huge burden removed. Thank you!
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post #4 of 8 Old 11-23-12, 11:27 PM
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Don
 
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Re: Seminar room in warehouse

If you are mounting the PJ so it is above the screen you might benefit from a glossier paint such as the SW ProClassic in satin finish. The added gloss over a flat finish would give you a small boost in gain, but at a small risk of hot spotting. The paint you now have on the wall has quite a bit more gloss than the SW satin. Since Presentation trumps movie usage for you I doubt mild hot spotting would be all that noticeable, but that is a call you have to make.

Now as to the shade of gray. A N8 gray will cut down on the brightness of the reflected image even if it has some gain, but what you are gaining by losing that brightness is higher image contrast, better blacks and deeper, richer colors. Again, this is a call you have to make - some people prefer blacks/contrast over image brightness while others are just the opposite. Your PJ is shooting ~47 foot candle of image brightness in Presentation mode and ~24 fc in movie mode. I still think an N8 gray will work for you, but I'm one that prefers contrast over brightness. As you can see, like most things in life, image quality tends to be a personal preference and is usually a compromise of one kind or another.

The SW ProClassic Series B20 and their Cashmere paints roll on very well so there is no need to have your screen sprayed.
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post #5 of 8 Old 11-23-12, 11:56 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Seminar room in warehouse

I would rather have better blacks. It will be: Sherwin-Williams Cashmere Interior Latex Flat Enamel paint in satin finish tinted to SW 'Unique Gray'

Painting starts on Monday. I will let everyone know the results.

Thank you for taking the time.
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post #6 of 8 Old 11-24-12, 07:30 AM
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Re: Seminar room in warehouse

If you have an easy access to projector's lens, a good idea for movie viewing would be the addition of a ND2 filter. It does not cost much (around 30$), is neutral which means that it does not interfere with colors and cuts out ~50% of extra light giving you better black levels. You can take it off for presentation purposes.
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post #7 of 8 Old 11-24-12, 12:23 PM
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Don
 
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Re: Seminar room in warehouse

Quote:
JMTM wrote: View Post
I would rather have better blacks. It will be: Sherwin-Williams Cashmere Interior Latex Flat Enamel paint in satin finish tinted to SW 'Unique Gray'

Painting starts on Monday. I will let everyone know the results.

Thank you for taking the time.
Unfortunately SW Cashmere isn't available in satin finish, but only flat, low lustre and high lustre. Even the low lustre finish is glossier than their satin finish and would almost assuredly hot spot. For best results with a SW paint in satin finish go with the PROCLASSIC® Waterborne Interior Acrylic Satin B20-1100 Series which is also called ProClassic® Interior Acrylic Latex Enamel. The key to getting the correct SW ProClassic paint is remembering to get the B20 Series. It is frustrating that SW sells three different paints under almost the same name, but such is life.
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post #8 of 8 Old 11-25-12, 09:53 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Seminar room in warehouse

We are planning to be finished tomorrow. Meanwhile, I have another question if you don't mind. In my research there are so many selling paint with sprinkles I was wondering what is the dividing line between using just paint and using paint with sprinkles?

Thanks

Jorge
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post #9 of 8 Old 11-26-12, 08:06 AM
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Re: Seminar room in warehouse

Sprinkles can do one of many things,
  • Nothing - as some commercial products I've tested
  • Cause Harm - see silver fire
  • Give a slight boost - see Black Widow™ and C&S Ultra™

BW™ gives a slight boost because it is aluminum and it doesn't interfere with the projected image. 99.9% of the time a simple off the shelf neutral gray will give you adequate performance though.
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