Simplifying The Complex: OTS Replacement for Black Widow - Page 2 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

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post #11 of 17 Old 12-13-12, 03:27 PM
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Re: Simplifying The Complex: OTS Replacement for Black Widow

I made a 96" sintra screen w/rolled BW. It was a great screen, my issue was that I sit too close, and did notice the grittiness at 7 ft away. I rolled sw duration unique gray matte over it and it was fine. While not as good a performer as the BW with the whites, but the slightly glossier sheen of duration matte helped some, and it was an altogether pretty satisfying screen. I'd still have it, had I not chipped the edge by dropping it. Now I'm back to the dalite model B matte white, but I'm contemplating painting it, because the black level sucks
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post #12 of 17 Old 12-13-12, 07:30 PM
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Re: Simplifying The Complex: OTS Replacement for Black Widow

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rts wrote: View Post
Harpmaker, I'm a bit intrigued as to why you are suggesting not giving BW another chance even though you feel that the issue may be improper mixing, application and roughness of the wall. Wouldn't better sanding of the wall, better mixing of the aluminum paint, and using the paint gun instead of the roller help obtain the BW screen that folks rave about in this forum?
The calculator at projectorcentral shows your PJ hitting a 120" 16:9 screen with 11 fc (this assumes the lamp has dimmed 25% from new) which is too low for BW for most people and is possibly the reason you are seeing "dirty" blacks. I think a lighter gray screen would work better for you. However, if you have enough BW left over it wouldn't wouldn't cost you anything but time to try fixing the texture in your wall and spraying on the BW to see how that affected the image quality.
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post #13 of 17 Old 12-13-12, 07:52 PM
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Re: Simplifying The Complex: OTS Replacement for Black Widow

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rts wrote: View Post
I see that "Valspar Ultra Premium Super Flat Finish" shows up on Valspar website:
http://www.valsparpaint.com/en/find-...uper-flat.html
It seems to be an Acrylic resin (213484 Ultra White)

However, when I went to Lowe's they could no find it, and instead suggested "Valspar Ultra Premium Quart Interior Flat Enamel Ultra White Paint":
http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay?...llow&cId=PDIO1
This one is a Flat Enamel Latex (213482 Ultra White). This is also the one I used for BW after getting it tainted to 427-2 Bermuda Beige.

Are the above two paints the same? Seems like Lowe's keeps changing the names of the paints
Yes, they are the same paint. I talked to a guy that works in the paint department of my local Lowe's store and he said that Lowe's sent them new labels to put over the old ones.
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post #14 of 17 Old 12-13-12, 08:45 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Simplifying The Complex: OTS Replacement for Black Widow

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Harpmaker wrote: View Post
The calculator at projectorcentral shows your PJ hitting a 120" 16:9 screen with 11 fc (this assumes the lamp has dimmed 25% from new) which is too low for BW for most people and is possibly the reason you are seeing "dirty" blacks. I think a lighter gray screen would work better for you. However, if you have enough BW left over it wouldn't wouldn't cost you anything but time to try fixing the texture in your wall and spraying on the BW to see how that affected the image quality.
I think you convinced me to go with less darker screen given my projector's limitation and preference for cleaner whites versus watching stuff in any ambient light. So now that we are on the topic of brighter screens, shouldn't I try something like C&S Ultra with:

Valspar Ultra Premium Quart Interior Flat Enamel Ultra White Paint (Base 1?) tinted 115-0.67 from Lowes:
http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay?...llow&cId=PDIO1

16 fl. oz. Liquitex BASICS 'Silver' acrylic paint from Michaels:
http://www.michaels.com/Liquitex-Bas...efault,pd.html

I have bought the squirrel mixer to mix the paints thoroughly with a drill. Do you think that Glidden 'Snowfield' with the above Valspar will still be better for my set-up compared to C&S Ultra?

Thanks!
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post #15 of 17 Old 12-14-12, 05:22 PM
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Re: Simplifying The Complex: OTS Replacement for Black Widow

Quote:
rts wrote: View Post
I think you convinced me to go with less darker screen given my projector's limitation and preference for cleaner whites versus watching stuff in any ambient light. So now that we are on the topic of brighter screens, shouldn't I try something like C&S Ultra with:

Valspar Ultra Premium Quart Interior Flat Enamel Ultra White Paint (Base 1?) tinted 115-0.67 from Lowes:
http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay?...llow&cId=PDIO1

16 fl. oz. Liquitex BASICS 'Silver' acrylic paint from Michaels:
http://www.michaels.com/Liquitex-Bas...efault,pd.html

I have bought the squirrel mixer to mix the paints thoroughly with a drill. Do you think that Glidden 'Snowfield' with the above Valspar will still be better for my set-up compared to C&S Ultra?

Thanks!
First off, I meant to say "dirty whites" not "dirty blacks". Sorry about that, glad you knew what I meant.

I can't remember comparing C&S Ultra to any paint tinted to Glidden 'Snowfield', that is something that should be done. C&S Ultra gives you the same, or a bit brighter, whites than Sherwin-Williams 'Extra White' (which is a base color and not a tinted color - no colorants are added to the base). A paint tinted to 'Snowfield' should be just a tad darker than C&S Ultra, but we are talking about differences that are just barely detectable by the human eye in side-by-side comparisons. If you were to have two whole screens, one of C&S Ultra and another of 'Snowfield' then view one screen, take it down and put up the other screen you probably couldn't tell the difference - the human eye/brain simply can't remember color information to that level of precision.

If you want the absolute best screen for your use then go with C&S Ultra and no ambient light during viewing. A very close second choice would be a 'Snowfield' screen. With the latter you are sacrificing a small bit of performance for the ease of getting an OTS paint rather than having to mix your own.
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post #16 of 17 Old 12-14-12, 05:57 PM Thread Starter
rts
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Re: Simplifying The Complex: OTS Replacement for Black Widow

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First off, I meant to say "dirty whites" not "dirty blacks". Sorry about that, glad you knew what I meant.

I can't remember comparing C&S™ Ultra to any paint tinted to Glidden 'Snowfield', that is something that should be done. C&S™ Ultra gives you the same, or a bit brighter, whites than Sherwin-Williams 'Extra White' (which is a base color and not a tinted color - no colorants are added to the base). A paint tinted to 'Snowfield' should be just a tad darker than C&S™ Ultra, but we are talking about differences that are just barely detectable by the human eye in side-by-side comparisons. If you were to have two whole screens, one of C&S™ Ultra and another of 'Snowfield' then view one screen, take it down and put up the other screen you probably couldn't tell the difference - the human eye/brain simply can't remember color information to that level of precision.

If you want the absolute best screen for your use then go with C&S™ Ultra and no ambient light during viewing. A very close second choice would be a 'Snowfield' screen. With the latter you are sacrificing a small bit of performance for the ease of getting an OTS paint rather than having to mix your own.
Thanks ... so i started this thread to explore the ots substitute for BW, and now here I'm tempted to do another mix! However before I run to the neighborhood Michael's for Silver, I was wondering if my light walls (light brown/beige) and completely white ceiling on which the projector is mounted will make c&s ultra still a better choice then Snowfield? The light is definitely controlled in my basement .... Basically no light and the doors are always closed .... It's just the 8 foot white ceiling that's worrying me.

Last edited by rts; 12-14-12 at 06:13 PM.
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post #17 of 17 Old 12-14-12, 06:44 PM
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Re: Simplifying The Complex: OTS Replacement for Black Widow

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rts wrote: View Post
Thanks ... so i started this thread to with explore the ots substitute for BW, and now am tempted to do another mix! However before I run to the neighborhood Michael's for Silver, I was wondering if my light walls (light brown/beige) and completely white ceiling on which the projector is mounted will make c&s ultra still a better choice then Snowfield? The light is definitely controlled in my basement .... Basically no light and the doors are always closed .... It's just the 8 foot white ceiling that's worrying me.
Could you post a photo of your home theater?

How far is your PJ mounted from the screen?

Is your PJ calibrated to your screen?

My answers so far have been predicated on your BW screen producing dirty whites and showing the imperfections of the wall surface. To combat the first problem a lighter gray is called for and the second problem calls for smoothing the wall or using a paint without any shiny components or too much gloss. The "metallic" paint used to mix C&S Ultra has VERY small mica particles (which aren't really metal) in it so it would probably work for you, but if you only want to paint one more time and be done with it it would be safer to go with 'Snowfield' in a paint with very moderate gloss (Valspar Super Flat) or minimal gloss (Valspar flat).
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