Help with the Black Widow PFG DIY Projection Screen - Page 3 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

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post #21 of 96 Old 04-28-13, 03:51 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Help with the Black Widow PFG DIY Projection Screen

Alright guys.....Today was the first time in weeks I had time to work on my screen. I used the quart of paint I posted earlier the same paint I was told would be correct, mixed with two 4-oz AAA-F. Well its still beige!!! Its not grey not even a little. I am getting frustrated and really just thinking of quitng the whole project. Help please. What must I do. Can I purchase another AAA-F and throw it in there? I need answers.

Thanks
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post #22 of 96 Old 04-28-13, 06:34 PM
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Re: Help with the Black Widow PFG DIY Projection Screen

Quote:
aiwa2child wrote: View Post
Alright guys.....Today was the first time in weeks I had time to work on my screen. I used the quart of paint I posted earlier the same paint I was told would be correct, mixed with two 4-oz AAA-F. Well its still beige!!! Its not grey not even a little. I am getting frustrated and really just thinking of quitng the whole project. Help please. What must I do. Can I purchase another AAA-F and throw it in there? I need answers.

Thanks
OK, this is the second time (third time really since this is your second attempt) in the last few weeks that folks have had this problem. Something is wrong and we're going to find out what it is! The last base paint you got SHOULD have worked just fine, it was the correct paint number and the correct tint formula. I'm now beginning to wonder if the AAA-F is at fault. I will call Createx tomorrow to see if they have changed this paint in any way recently. Until then please compare your bottles of AAA-F to the photos below and let us know if there are any differences. If there are please post some photos of your bottle.

I don't blame you for being frustrated at this point... maybe even a bit tiffed... maybe even a bit angry.
Adding more AAA-F might get the color right (but it's a gamble), but the mix reflectance would be too high.



Front label of Auto Air Aluminum (fine). Note the "Series 4100" that is underlined in red.



UPC area of the bottle. Note the "4101" inside the red rectangle and the "ALUMINUM BASE (FINE)" on the label.

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post #23 of 96 Old 04-28-13, 07:14 PM Thread Starter
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Exclamation Re: Help with the Black Widow PFG DIY Projection Screen

My bottle is a little different in terms of the label but I believe the numbers are correct. Here are my two photos.

Help with the Black Widow PFG DIY Projection Screen-imag0431.jpg

Help with the Black Widow PFG DIY Projection Screen-imag0433.jpg

Please let me know what you think.

Thanks for the help. I have a birthday party for my son here in two weeks and really wanted to get the theater done for him and his friends.
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post #24 of 96 Old 04-28-13, 07:18 PM
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Here is the picture of the AAA-F bottles I used.

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post #25 of 96 Old 04-28-13, 08:25 PM
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Re: Help with the Black Widow PFG DIY Projection Screen

Thanks for the photos of your AAA-F bottles guys! They do have the right numbers so everything should be working.

I'm not concerned about the slight labeling differences since the UPC info matches. I also now have the lot numbers to give to Createx to find out what's going on.

I'll also do more testing on several other paints I had made to match PPG 'Bermuda Beige' and also against a knows BB paint that worked well to make BW™.

I'm truly sorry about this guys. As soon as I know anything more I'll post it in this thread.
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post #26 of 96 Old 04-28-13, 08:41 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Help with the Black Widow PFG DIY Projection Screen

This is probably a stupid question but the paint people at Menards gave me a wierd look when I asked them for "PPG Bermuda Beige". They asked me what the PPG stands for and I couldn't tell them either. I thought it was Pittsburgh Paint something. What does it mean? And could that be the problem? I doubt it since you guys seen my paint numbers and said they would work. I guess my question is, what does PPG stand for?

Thank you and looking forward in hearing back from you. I plan on attempting this one more time as soon as I hear back.
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post #27 of 96 Old 04-28-13, 09:12 PM
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Re: Help with the Black Widow PFG DIY Projection Screen

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aiwa2child wrote: View Post
This is probably a stupid question but the paint people at Menards gave me a wierd look when I asked them for "PPG Bermuda Beige". They asked me what the PPG stands for and I couldn't tell them either. I thought it was Pittsburgh Paint something. What does it mean? And could that be the problem? I doubt it since you guys seen my paint numbers and said they would work. I guess my question is, what does PPG stand for?
That's not a stupid question at all! Menards sells PPG paint and the employees in the paint department don't know what PPG stands for? While it doesn't say what PPG stands for, the name PPG is on Menards Grand Distinction webpage!!! http://menards.pittsburghpaints.com/.../colornow.aspx

PPG means Pittsburgh Paint & Glass although they go more by simply PPG Industries nowadays.

Quote:
Thank you and looking forward in hearing back from you. I plan on attempting this one more time as soon as I hear back.
I don't have a Menards anywhere near me so I've asked Mech to get a quart of paint matching your last one from Menards for testing. Don't know if he will have time to do it, he's one of the busiest people I know. I'll be testing with numerous Valspar paints and an older Behr paint all tinted to BB.

FYI, Sherwin-Williams 'Modestly Peach' is another color that will work to make BW™ with since it is practically identical to PPG 'Bermuda Beige'. That still leaves us with the question whether or not the AAA-F is at fault or not.
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post #28 of 96 Old 04-29-13, 10:54 AM Thread Starter
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Unhappy Re: Help with the Black Widow PFG DIY Projection Screen

mechman:

First thank you for looking into this and you guys not leaving me out to dry, I appreciate all the information you guys give me. You confirmed that my Menards paint I posted earlier was correct, okay that's good. My quart did have pastel on the label but so did the gallon of Bermuda beige I pulled off one of the other Black Widow threads. The picture below is the gallon of Bermuda Beige I pulled from another Home Theater Shack Thread. It says its from Apple Valley Menards, Pittsburg Paint, Grand Distinct Flat and then further down it says Pastel right above Bermuda Beige 427-2.

Name:  P7224870small.png
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Is this really going to make a difference in how the color turns out?

Below is my quart of Bermuda Beige Mix:

Help with the Black Widow PFG DIY Projection Screen-imag0427.jpg

Getting a little more confused but I hope you guys can set me straight and I can get this screen up for the birthday party. I am thinking of purchasing more AAA-F and putting it in the mix I made yesterday to grey it up, but every time I think about doing that I ask my self how do I now when its grey enough. I am a Mechanical Engineer and I like to follow formulas and equations to the tee, so I will just wait for the experienced paint mixing professionals to help me out.

Thanks again
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post #29 of 96 Old 04-29-13, 02:51 PM
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Re: Help with the Black Widow PFG DIY Projection Screen

"Pastel" is the base of the paint, Flat Enamel is the gloss level of the paint (truncated to just Flat on the label). Different colors need different bases. "Pastel" is the base used by PPG for light colors. If you were getting a medium dark gray paint the base would be "Midtone". The bases for darker colors usually have less titanium dioxide in them (which is basically white pigment) AND they have less paint in the can to allow for adding higher amounts of liquid tints. So the base used DOES matter, in fact it matters a whole lot. The same amount of tint to make the correct color in a "Pastel" base would make a much darker color if it was added to a "Midtone" base. Once I got a can of paint that called for a "pastel"-like base and the store was out of that so they used a darker or deeper base and simply added a bunch of white tint to effectively bring the darker base up to "Pastel".

You could try adding more AAA-F to your current mix and then stopping when it looks gray to you. The problem is that wet paint can be miles away from it's dry color. It's also very hard to get a true neutral gray when judging color by eye unless you have a neutral gray sample to compare it to. If you decide to go this route I strongly suggest using a small amount of your mix (like a fl. oz. or less) and then slowly adding AAA-F until it's a neutral gray (or as neutral as it can get by this method).

Another option would be to use an OTS gray paint instead of BW™.
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post #30 of 96 Old 04-29-13, 02:51 PM Thread Starter
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Question Re: Help with the Black Widow PFG DIY Projection Screen

Hey mechman could I purchase one more 4 oz bottle of AAA-F and slowly enter it into the mix I made yesterday? I live in Nebraska and yesterday was the first nice day of the season so I took some of the new mix I made yesterday and painted it on a piece of printing paper. I then took it outside and looked at it in the sunlight. It is not beige as my mainly fluorescent house lights told me but its not totally grey either. I was looking at a Munsell Neutral paint calibration tab to see if I could get it in the ballpark and I think I am somewhere near an N8.5 or a N9.0. I think I need to be around N7.5 right. Would adding 2 or 3 oz of AAA-F really destroy my screen?

This is my setup:

I have a Epson 5020UB projecting onto a 110" MDF painted screen.

What do you think?

Thanks
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