Help with the Black Widow PFG DIY Projection Screen - Page 5 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

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post #41 of 96 Old 04-30-13, 09:41 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Help with the Black Widow PFG DIY Projection Screen

Harpmaker thanks for the reply. I am going to mix my last 4 oz AAA-F into my last batch of Bermuda Beige/AAA-F mix. I am going to do it 1 fl oz at a time and see what it compares to when set up against the SW Gray Screen paint I got from the Sherwin Williams store. If 4 fl oz isn't enough then I will just use the SW Gray Screen paint for now. When you guys get the results back in testing the new version of AAA-F or a new BW formula I will take the screen back down and re-paint it all over again, that is if I am not satisfied with the SW Gray Screen.

Thanks again for all the information and I will be looking forward in seeing your results on the tests.
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post #42 of 96 Old 04-30-13, 11:13 AM
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Re: Help with the Black Widow PFG DIY Projection Screen

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aiwa2child wrote: View Post
Harpmaker thanks for the reply. I am going to mix my last 4 oz AAA-F into my last batch of Bermuda Beige/AAA-F mix. I am going to do it 1 fl oz at a time and see what it compares to when set up against the SW Gray Screen paint I got from the Sherwin Williams store. If 4 fl oz isn't enough then I will just use the SW Gray Screen paint for now. When you guys get the results back in testing the new version of AAA-F or a new BW formula I will take the screen back down and re-paint it all over again, that is if I am not satisfied with the SW Gray Screen.

Thanks again for all the information and I will be looking forward in seeing your results on the tests.
I would strongly suggest that you do your BW™ reformulation on a MUCH smaller scale, mainly because I don't think simply adding more AAA-F alone is going to work. You might be better off adding the AAA-F to the 'Gray Screen'.

In my future testing to correct the current BW™ color problem I will also try to come up with a way to fix "broken" mixes like yours and olwe's so don't throw those mixes away just yet! The only thing wrong with them is probably the color and that can be corrected. When I do mix testing I usually use 1/4 teaspoon amounts of paint to find approximate ratios (such as four 1/4 tsp. base to one tsp. AAA-F for BW™).

Createx just called me back and there WAS a significant reformulation of their aluminum bases. They have changed to using an "encapsulated" form of aluminum to prevent "out-gassing" during shipment. The gas that is liberated in this process is hydrogen and they had to change to the encapsulated aluminum for both safety and liability reasons. The encapsulation prevents the 'Bermuda Beige' latex paint from directly interacting with the aluminum so the strong color change doesn't occur with the new AAA-F. This is a good thing in many ways and it could very well mean lighter gray versions of BW™ are on the horizon. Every cloud has a silver lining... but that doesn't help you when you are the one getting rained on.
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post #43 of 96 Old 04-30-13, 12:14 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Help with the Black Widow PFG DIY Projection Screen

If you could refresh my memory....What exactly does the AAA-F do? If I were to combine small amounts of AAA-F to the SW Gray Screen paint what would I look for besides a paint color change? Will the AAA-F lessen the color degradation on-screen due to the screen being grey? After seeing what 8 fl oz of the new AAA-F does to a Beige color I doubt there would be hardly any paint color change, at least to the naked eye. So I would be adding it in my SW Gray Screen paint for what purpose?

Thanks
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post #44 of 96 Old 04-30-13, 12:40 PM
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Re: Help with the Black Widow PFG DIY Projection Screen

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aiwa2child wrote: View Post
If you could refresh my memory....What exactly does the AAA-F do? If I were to combine small amounts of AAA-F to the SW Gray Screen paint what would I look for besides a paint color change? Will the AAA-F lessen the color degradation on-screen due to the screen being grey? After seeing what 8 fl oz of the new AAA-F does to a Beige color I doubt there would be hardly any paint color change, at least to the naked eye. So I would be adding it in my SW Gray Screen paint for what purpose?

Thanks
The reason for having the AAA-F in the mix is to increase the reflectance without the hot spotting that would occur by simply going to a glossier finish. When BW™ was first being developed it was found that simply adding AAA-F to a white paint resulted in a mix that was way too blueish in color. We are sticklers when it comes to having a neutral gray screen so Mech did some testing to neutralize the color of the mix. The added tints required to make the mix color-neutral also darkened it so the final result was ~N7.5. The result was BW™ as it has been for years.

Adding the AAA-F to 'Gray Screen' would boost the reflectivity (increase the gain) of the mix. If you decide to try that and the added AAA-F makes the 'Gray Screen' too bluish you could compensate for that by adding a little of your "off color" BW™ to it.
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post #45 of 96 Old 05-01-13, 11:49 AM
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Re: Help with the Black Widow PFG DIY Projection Screen

According to the shipping schedule I got when I ordered mine from Amazon it won't get here until next week.
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post #46 of 96 Old 05-01-13, 11:54 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Help with the Black Widow PFG DIY Projection Screen

That is the only bad thing about AAA-F. Anywhere you order it takes forever to get to your house.
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post #47 of 96 Old 05-01-13, 01:40 PM
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Re: Help with the Black Widow PFG DIY Projection Screen

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That is the only bad thing about AAA-F. Anywhere you order it takes forever to get to your house.
The Createx Auto Air colors actually have a fairly extensive distribution network, but yeah, if you can't find it locally one must suffer the wait.

While we are waiting this might be a good time to expound on why AAA-F is such a good paint. Firstly, it is one of the few water-based metallic paints that actually uses metallic aluminum and not mica (which can introduce refraction effects unless the mix is designed to counter them). Secondly, while no one would say that AAA is inexpensive when compared to craft or house paints it is available in small bottles so it really is cheaper than using the other water-based aluminum paint I found which must be special ordered from Sherwin-Williams (so you still have to wait) and costs about $100 a gallon and only comes in gallon cans or larger. The other thing that AAA-F has going for it is the size of the aluminum particles are small enough that no "glitter" effect is seen at normal viewing distances for home theaters. This is why we stipulate that the FINE version of AAA be used, the Medium and Coarse flavors have reflective particles that are too large. The sparkle effect may look cool on a car or motorcycle, but not on a projection screen.
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post #48 of 96 Old 05-03-13, 04:33 PM
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Re: Help with the Black Widow PFG DIY Projection Screen

I'll be calling Createx again Monday and try to get a clearer explanation of their lot numbering system. It is clear that Mech got some of the AAA-F made with non-encapsulated aluminum (the "old" stuff). My guess is that Dick Blick doesn't have a fast turnaround of AAA-F.

As luck would have it, I too received my new bottle of AAA-F today. I ordered from Amazon, but they are just a sales front for TCPGlobal who deals primarily in automotive paints and additives. The lot number of my 16 oz. bottle of AAA-F is WDNC18-86BS(1) and I CAN CONFIRM that is DOESN'T result in a neutral gray when mixed with a 'Bermuda Beige' base!

I have samples drying of BW™ made with the new AAA-F using BB as a base and also one using SW 'Unique Gray' as a base. Should be able to report the results here tomorrow eve..
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post #49 of 96 Old 05-03-13, 07:52 PM Thread Starter
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Good know that I wasn't incompetent when mixing paint. Lol. Harpmaker, you are lucky, I ordered my AAA-F on Monday at 8am and it's not set to arrive until Tuesday. I am looking forward in your results.
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post #50 of 96 Old 05-03-13, 10:10 PM
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Re: Help with the Black Widow PFG DIY Projection Screen

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aiwa2child wrote: View Post
Good know that I wasn't incompetent when mixing paint. Lol. Harpmaker, you are lucky, I ordered my AAA-F on Monday at 8am and it's not set to arrive until Tuesday. I am looking forward in your results.
Did you get the AAA-F from Amazon/TCPGlobal? I was fortunate that TCPG had a distribution point in SC so I got it fast via Priority Mail.

I don't want to jinx myself, but I hope to have a new BW™ base for use with the new AAA-F by the end of next week.
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