Help with the Black Widow PFG DIY Projection Screen - Page 9 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

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post #81 of 96 Old 05-21-13, 07:34 AM
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Re: Help with the Black Widow PFG DIY Projection Screen

Hello,

It"s my first post here. I've already done a DIY screen with a mix of liquitex silver. I'm quite pleased with it but I can see more grayed line on the gun trajectory. So i'm thinking of redoing it but rolled and not sprayed.

the black widow could interest me but before looking to a mix equivalent in France I'd like to check if it fits what I need. In fact I need a gray screen to enhance the black (quite gray) of my CF181D and I need gain for a 3D mode (dual passive projection setting) to obtain the more possible light reflexion.
Do you think this paint could achieve this two goals (quite opposed)?

thanks in advance for help
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post #82 of 96 Old 05-22-13, 12:33 PM
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Just a question for the developers of the BW mix. What happens if the old AAA-F is mixed with a neutral grey paint? Will the mixture still be neutral or how far is it off by?
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post #83 of 96 Old 05-22-13, 10:55 PM
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Re: Help with the Black Widow PFG DIY Projection Screen

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ange wrote: View Post
Hello,

It"s my first post here. I've already done a DIY screen with a mix of liquitex silver. I'm quite pleased with it but I can see more grayed line on the gun trajectory. So i'm thinking of redoing it but rolled and not sprayed.

the black widow could interest me but before looking to a mix equivalent in France I'd like to check if it fits what I need. In fact I need a gray screen to enhance the black (quite gray) of my CF181D and I need gain for a 3D mode (dual passive projection setting) to obtain the more possible light reflexion.
Do you think this paint could achieve this two goals (quite opposed)?

thanks in advance for help
Welcome to HTS!

What paints are your current screen mix made with besides Liquitex Silver? What is the percentage of silver in the mix?

What size screen are you thinking of doing with Black Widow™?
How far away will you be from the screen while viewing?
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post #84 of 96 Old 05-22-13, 10:58 PM
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Re: Help with the Black Widow PFG DIY Projection Screen

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olwe wrote: View Post
Just a question for the developers of the BW mix. What happens if the old AAA-F is mixed with a neutral grey paint? Will the mixture still be neutral or how far is it off by?
If you add the old AAA-F to a neutral gray paint the final mix will push blue, possibly hard enough that it can't be corrected via PJ calibration.
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post #85 of 96 Old 05-23-13, 11:26 PM
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Re: Help with the Black Widow PFG DIY Projection Screen

Hope you're feeling better, Harp!

Having read what you wrote about a neutral grey paint with the old AAA-F, what if I add ½quart of BB with old AAA-F, and ½quart of neutral grey (lighter shade) with the new AAA-F, will the result "still" be a BW mix?

The reason I'm asking is because I don't want to waste the stuff I got before. I already have a quart of flat BB paint from Behr, old and new AAA-F. I still have to buy the lighter neutral grey paint. I'm thinking of Valspar in eggshell for added screen gain. Does mixing different brands of paint together spell trouble?

Should I go ahead with this or does this sound out of whack and just scrap the idea.
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post #86 of 96 Old 05-24-13, 04:52 AM
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Re: Help with the Black Widow PFG DIY Projection Screen

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Harpmaker wrote: View Post
Welcome to HTS!

What paints are your current screen mix made with besides Liquitex Silver? What is the percentage of silver in the mix?

What size screen are you thinking of doing with Black Widow™?
How far away will you be from the screen while viewing?
I've mixed white pearl titanium white, a matt medium and water with the silver which is 22% of the mix

the screen is 3,8m by 2,1m


depending on where I sit I could be between 4m to 6m from the screen





Thx for your answer
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post #87 of 96 Old 05-25-13, 08:56 PM
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Re: Help with the Black Widow PFG DIY Projection Screen

Quote:
ange wrote: View Post
I've mixed white pearl titanium white, a matt medium and water with the silver which is 22% of the mix

the screen is 3,8m by 2,1m


depending on where I sit I could be between 4m to 6m from the screen





Thx for your answer
If I'm running the numbers right you are getting an image brightness of about 8fL on a 171" diagonal screen. This is too dim to use Black Widow™. However, I see you are using two projectors so this should double that brightness to 16fL which is good and a BW™ screen would work! The problem is that you lose so much brightness in the 3D process that you are back to being too dim again. Also, screen paints that use aluminum or mica flakes work poorly with passive 3D since they don't preserve light polarization that is required by that process. When enough aluminum is present in the mix to retain good polarization hot spotting occurs.
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post #88 of 96 Old 05-25-13, 09:08 PM
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Re: Help with the Black Widow PFG DIY Projection Screen

Quote:
olwe wrote: View Post
Hope you're feeling better, Harp!

Having read what you wrote about a neutral grey paint with the old AAA-F, what if I add ½quart of BB with old AAA-F, and ½quart of neutral grey (lighter shade) with the new AAA-F, will the result "still" be a BW mix?

The reason I'm asking is because I don't want to waste the stuff I got before. I already have a quart of flat BB paint from Behr, old and new AAA-F. I still have to buy the lighter neutral grey paint. I'm thinking of Valspar in eggshell for added screen gain. Does mixing different brands of paint together spell trouble?

Should I go ahead with this or does this sound out of whack and just scrap the idea.
I agree with Mech that this should work fine, but not having done it and measured it I can't be 100% sure. The theory is sound.

I haven't tried using Valspar eggshell to make BW™, but I suspect it will work fine. If there would be any hot spotting in would be mild.

You are relatively safe mixing two brands of interior latex paints together to use as a screen mix. Where things start to go bad is when vastly dissimilar paints or finishes are mixed together (like latex and polyurethane).

Thanks again for the well-wishes. This bug is proving hard to get rid of.
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post #89 of 96 Old 05-27-13, 04:26 AM
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Re: Help with the Black Widow PFG DIY Projection Screen

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Harpmaker wrote: View Post
If I'm running the numbers right you are getting an image brightness of about 8fL on a 171" diagonal screen. This is too dim to use Black Widow™. However, I see you are using two projectors so this should double that brightness to 16fL which is good and a BW™ screen would work! The problem is that you lose so much brightness in the 3D process that you are back to being too dim again. Also, screen paints that use aluminum or mica flakes work poorly with passive 3D since they don't preserve light polarization that is required by that process. When enough aluminum is present in the mix to retain good polarization hot spotting occurs.
Hello,
my setup is not based on polarization. It's dolby 3D filters
(I cant post a link but you can go on avs forum search "infitec" key word)
It's color filtering based on dichroic filter and this method works fine without any special screen.
In my case I need only a gray screen with gain (best reflection possible without hot spot) and a paint that I could be rolled. Do you have any advice if black widow is not appropriate?

Thx
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post #90 of 96 Old 05-27-13, 03:38 PM
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Don
 
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Re: Help with the Black Widow PFG DIY Projection Screen

Quote:
ange wrote: View Post
Hello,
my setup is not based on polarization. It's dolby 3D filters
(I cant post a link but you can go on avs forum search "infitec" key word)
It's color filtering based on dichroic filter and this method works fine without any special screen.
In my case I need only a gray screen with gain (best reflection possible without hot spot) and a paint that I could be rolled. Do you have any advice if black widow is not appropriate?

Thx
OK, since you aren't using a polarized 3D solution then the only thing you must be concerned about is how much light is lost by the infitec system. With most active 3D and polarization systems this amounts to at least a 50% reduction of image brightness and can approach 75%. It looks like the infitec system could retain more image brightness that the other systems, but I found no hard data on this with my search.

Black Widow™ has a measured gain of 0.89 so you are losing only about 10% of image brightness compared to a 1.0 gain screen. I'm not sure what the gain of your screen would be with your custom mix, but if it was greater than about gain 1.2 you would probably see some hot spotting.

Adequate screen brightness is a very subjective thing so ultimately the only real way to find out if a screen mix will work for you is to try it.

That brings us to the current state of Black Widow™; we recently discovered that the manufacturer of the aluminum paint used to make BW™ changed their formulation and that has in turn changed the color of the base paint used to make BW™. We are doing tests to find new base colors, but early testing suggests that almost any neutral gray paint can be used, We suspect this will eventually lead to a series of new BW™ mixes in varying shades of gray from very light to very dark.

People making BW™ from now on must know the batch number of the Auto Air Aluminum-fine they use to make the mix since this will determine what base color to use. The older version of AAA-F must use a base that is a pinkish-beige for it to result in a neutral gray mix. The newer version of AAA-F does not have that limitation.
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