Screen mix selection confusion - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

 
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post #1 of 7 Old 05-03-13, 09:09 PM Thread Starter
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Marcus
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
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Screen mix selection confusion

So I'm a few weeks away from painting my screen and my recent readings in regards to screen mixes have me all confused so I was looking for a recomendation. I will have a Panasonic Ae8000 PJ in a dedicated room. However I'm not sure how I'l use it, lights out for movies, lights on for sports, etc. I've not had a theatre before so I'm not sure what our habits will be. Also not real sure what aspect screen to have. Since alot of this isn't known I didn't want to buy a screen and decided to go with paint first to see how it gets used.

This is a dedicated room, soundproofed, no windows, etc. Looking at the panny manual months ago I somehow settled on mounting the PJ far back, about 17'. I had a 96" wide screen in mind 16:9 I think, but that was months ago. Not sure why I settled on that throw though but I mounted some extra plywood beneath the drywall for mounting and the conduit exits the ceiling in that general area. Is this way off? I think I chose that becasue it would fall above the second row and with the reduced ceiling height I didn't want it to be in the way of heads.

Looking into specifics for a screen mix and using the pj calculator I think that'll be too far back and cause a brightness issue. But I'm not sure I understand what I'm seeing.

First row seating would be about 11' back and second row will be about 17'. the entire screen wall and ceiling will be black painted. The walls will be a dark color like puprle and leather colored. The carpet is undecided. Room size is 14x21x7.5'.

with current controversy on BW paint and my potential brightness issue, I'm not sure what will work for my situation. any recommendation would be helpful.
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post #2 of 7 Old 05-03-13, 10:51 PM
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Don
 
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Re: Screen mix selection confusion

You're kind of "shooting yourself in the foot" by mounting the PJ so far from the screen unless you really have to, but the good news is that Cinema 2 mode doubles the lumens of Cinema 1 mode, but is still reported to produce a nice image so the 17 ' mounting isn't necessarily a deal-breaker.

When choosing a screen shade remember that a white screen is only for use in a literal "bat cave" and ANY ambient light will play hob with black level and contrast. The more ambient light you need to have in the HT during viewing the darker gray the screen must be to absorb that light, but you need to have the PJ lumens to make up for that absorption. If you design your HT lighting correctly you can have a lot of light in certain areas (spot lighting, or in areas to the rear of the HT) as long as that light doesn't make it to the screen. Using Cinema 2 mode you can even use Eco lamp mode and still not need a reflectively-enhanced screen mix; a regular N8 OTS would work well.

There really is no "controversy" regarding BW. The mix works as it always has as long as the older version of AAA-F is used. Createx changed the type of aluminum used to make AAA-F so the new version will require a new base color. That endeavor is currently under way.
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post #3 of 7 Old 05-04-13, 02:29 PM Thread Starter
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Marcus
 
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Re: Screen mix selection confusion

I vaguely remember looking at the manual deciding what to do. And it made sense at the time, or so I thought. That far back was in the middle of the zoom range for the size screen I had in mind. also it puts the Pj out of the way. I'm 6'6", the ceiling height is 7'6" and I fgure the PJ will be about 12" with a shallow mount so it's important to have it directly over one of the seating rows. The first row is about 11 feet, which as at one end of the zoom range and won't work.

I don't have real estate for larger than a 96" wide screen due to the entry way into the room (front left, limits the size of L main I can make). Actual L will be slightly less than 17', 16'10" or something like that. On the proector people calculator at that throw it shows a screen diagnal of about 130". Mine would be 110" so since the output is zoomed onto a smaller area, don't I make up some brightness doing that? 130" diag is about 1/3 larger in area.

According to the calculator a 1.0 gain screen produces about 14 fL. Sounds like I'll need the C&S mix and always have to have the lights out, especially if I want to watch 3D. Does BW not stand a chance of working with the amount of light I have?

Also I guess controversy wasn't the right word but with the aluminum changes is what I meant.
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post #4 of 7 Old 05-04-13, 09:25 PM
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Don
 
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Re: Screen mix selection confusion

Quote:
memarcus wrote: View Post
I vaguely remember looking at the manual deciding what to do. And it made sense at the time, or so I thought. That far back was in the middle of the zoom range for the size screen I had in mind. also it puts the Pj out of the way. I'm 6'6", the ceiling height is 7'6" and I fgure the PJ will be about 12" with a shallow mount so it's important to have it directly over one of the seating rows. The first row is about 11 feet, which as at one end of the zoom range and won't work.

I don't have real estate for larger than a 96" wide screen due to the entry way into the room (front left, limits the size of L main I can make). Actual L will be slightly less than 17', 16'10" or something like that. On the proector people calculator at that throw it shows a screen diagnal of about 130". Mine would be 110" so since the output is zoomed onto a smaller area, don't I make up some brightness doing that? 130" diag is about 1/3 larger in area.

According to the calculator a 1.0 gain screen produces about 14 fL. Sounds like I'll need the C&S mix and always have to have the lights out, especially if I want to watch 3D. Does BW not stand a chance of working with the amount of light I have?
I use the projectorcentral calc which shows 14 fL for a mounting distance of 16' 10" and 13 fL for 17' producing a 128" and a 130" diagonal image respectively. Using a 17' mounting and adjusting the zoom so that a 96" diagonal screen is reached it gives 17 fL. Please keep in mind that this calc seems to use almost the dimmest video mode on the PJ. You will get twice this by using Cinema 2 mode and Dynamic mode will about melt your eyeballs. I believe that using Cinema 2 mode you can even use Eco lamp for most of your viewing.

If you were going to only use your HT in the dark or with very small amounts of ambient light then C&S Ultra would work well for you, but if you need to have a significant amount of light for watching sports I would recommend a N8 OTS paint and using Cinema 2 mode on the PJ.

Quote:
Also I guess controversy wasn't the right word but with the aluminum changes is what I meant.
No worries. The truth of the matter is that I think the new AAA-F will open up a wide range of mixes for those needing, or wanting, a brighter image through the use of a reflectively-enhanced mix. So all in all this will be a change for the better!
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post #5 of 7 Old 05-05-13, 11:47 AM Thread Starter
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Marcus
 
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Re: Screen mix selection confusion

Don't the different modes (cinema 1/2, rec 709, dynamic, etc) have different color biases? Is this correctable through proper calibration? Seems I remember someone mentioning that rec 709 was a good one out of the box on that projector. Never owned a PJ before so I don't fully know what they're capable of adjustment wise.

Sounds like I have enough leeway to move forward with what I planned. the screen would be 96" wide or a 110" diagonal if that makes any difference, but I think that's what you meant in your reply.

After discussing with the wife, I doubt we'll be watching in the dark, so I'd probably need a darker screen for acceptable blacks. I have total light control though. There are wall sconces on the wall and I have some spots for movie posters also. They're on seperate cicuits so the sconces can be turned off and the spots can be dimmed. The spots wouldl ikely be used for ambient light since they're trained on the wall and not the screen like the sconces would be.

Thanks for the recomendation of the OTS solutions. that makes it simple. What distance would you mount this PJ? I can move it up but I'll have to train the video and control cables along the ceiling. Won't look super slick but nobody will be looking in that direction.......I could move it a couple feet, but I'd want ot be sure to gain something concrete by doing so. I'm not worried about the eco mode. Chances are this might get used for 10-20 per week at most....so a bulb replacement every 2-3 years I can handle.
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post #6 of 7 Old 05-06-13, 08:46 PM
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Don
 
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Re: Screen mix selection confusion

Quote:
memarcus wrote: View Post
Don't the different modes (cinema 1/2, rec 709, dynamic, etc) have different color biases? Is this correctable through proper calibration? Seems I remember someone mentioning that rec 709 was a good one out of the box on that projector. Never owned a PJ before so I don't fully know what they're capable of adjustment wise.
Yes, different video modes can, and usually do, have different color biases, but these can usually be adjusted using a calibration DVD.

Quote:
Sounds like I have enough leeway to move forward with what I planned. the screen would be 96" wide or a 110" diagonal if that makes any difference, but I think that's what you meant in your reply.

After discussing with the wife, I doubt we'll be watching in the dark, so I'd probably need a darker screen for acceptable blacks. I have total light control though. There are wall sconces on the wall and I have some spots for movie posters also. They're on seperate cicuits so the sconces can be turned off and the spots can be dimmed. The spots wouldl ikely be used for ambient light since they're trained on the wall and not the screen like the sconces would be.

Thanks for the recomendation of the OTS solutions. that makes it simple. What distance would you mount this PJ? I can move it up but I'll have to train the video and control cables along the ceiling. Won't look super slick but nobody will be looking in that direction.......I could move it a couple feet, but I'd want ot be sure to gain something concrete by doing so. I'm not worried about the eco mode. Chances are this might get used for 10-20 per week at most....so a bulb replacement every 2-3 years I can handle.
I don't think you would gain all that much by going to the pain of moving the PJ a few feet closer to the screen. Any ambient light in the room calls for a gray screen in increase perceived image contrast even with PJ's that have great contrast to start with. The more ambient light the darker the gray shade needs to be.
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post #7 of 7 Old 05-07-13, 07:43 AM Thread Starter
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Marcus
 
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Re: Screen mix selection confusion

thanks for the great information harpmaker. You've been most helpful. I'm glad I've found out about the screen paints. Since I'm not sure what I want or know what I need this makes it easy and cheap to change. I'll start with your N8 OTS recommendation. It will likely be 3 months before I have it painted and get the PJ and log some hours watching though.....
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