Help for a beginner - Black Widow Paint - Page 3 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

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post #21 of 40 Old 11-22-13, 06:48 PM
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Re: Help for a beginner - Black Widow Paint

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mechman wrote: View Post
I would never recommend a satin finish.

And the more AAA you add, the grainier the image will get.
Thanks, I think I've read so much on it, all of the information blurs together. I've been meaning to paint this for a while, but it took me a while to get around to plastering a terrible wall level.
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post #22 of 40 Old 11-24-13, 05:13 PM
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Re: Help for a beginner - Black Widow Paint

Just trying to get confirmation that i should use a 4:1 ratio of paint to AAA mixture

Cheers
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post #23 of 40 Old 01-08-14, 05:50 AM
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Re: Help for a beginner - Black Widow Paint

Hi Guys,

I FINALLY found the Aussie thread for this...Only problem is I am looking at going the grey version as I have a Sony FX40 which outputs 4000 lumens and am doing a roughly 100' screen from 6m back (approx) what colour code would I need to get? I also want to keep it as light a grey as possible due to the fact the wife wants me to paint the whole wall so there is no screen visible when it's off and the rest of the room is white. We have Dulux, Taubmans, British paints to name a few.

Thanks
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post #24 of 40 Old 01-08-14, 03:22 PM
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Re: Help for a beginner - Black Widow Paint

Awesome thanks Mech. So how do I order a Neutral Grey and not just get something that isnt neutral. Is there a particular way to make sure? A code or something relevant to Aus?
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post #25 of 40 Old 01-08-14, 04:12 PM
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Re: Help for a beginner - Black Widow Paint

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Savingslowly wrote: View Post
Awesome thanks Mech. So how do I order a Neutral Grey and not just get something that isnt neutral. Is there a particular way to make sure? A code or something relevant to Aus?
Here is a list of neutral grays for Dulux paints in the U.K., I assume you can get them in Oz as well.

British neutrals:
Dulux paint in standard matt or vinyl matt finish:

1) 00NN 53/000 clouded slate 2, grey steel 2 [N7.8]
2) 00NN 62/000 ebony mists 5 [N8.3]
3) 00NN 72/000 clouded slate 3, grey steel 3 [N8.8]
4) 00NN 83/000 clouded slate 4, grey steel 4 [N9.3]

The N value of a color goes from N10 for pure white to N0 for pure black.

I just looked up http://www.dulux.com.au/ and can't find those (although they may still be available) so from what Mech said I think you should go with Dulux 'Milton Moon' if you can get it. It is an N7.3 color. Not all of the dulux.com.au grays are neutral, use a "color picker" program such as ColorPic to check the color online. The closer the RGB values are together the more neutral the color will be.
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post #26 of 40 Old 01-09-14, 07:52 PM
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Re: Help for a beginner - Black Widow Paint

Hi Guys,

Thanks for all the info. So I'm probably being annoyingly thorough but I want to get this right. So my AAA came in today and it's batch code is 102bs(1) SO looks like the new formula.
I have been on the Dulux site today and the most neutral grey I seem to be able to find is Ashville GR6

"insert Dulux colour wall link here" the system wont let me

this gave me RGB values of 200, 199, 199 and that's the only grey I can find that has rgb values this close together so that should suit right?

So if I get the wash and wear Matt will that be the right way to go?

It is not the darkest of greys but it is neutral.

So the wall is already painted white and it's not ancient should I still do an undercoat? the wall is fairly flat but I had to repair a hole we had to cut to install the projector cables so it's not perfect. Is there an undercoat I can use to help make it as flat as possible before painting?
Also I hear the mohair roller will give me the flattest results is this correct.

Thanks again for all your time on this guys much appreciated!!
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post #27 of 40 Old 01-09-14, 11:39 PM
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Re: Help for a beginner - Black Widow Paint

Quote:
Savingslowly wrote: View Post
Hi Guys,

Thanks for all the info. So I'm probably being annoyingly thorough but I want to get this right. So my AAA came in today and it's batch code is 102bs(1) SO looks like the new formula.
I have been on the Dulux site today and the most neutral grey I seem to be able to find is Ashville GR6

"insert Dulux colour wall link here" the system wont let me
You have to have 5 or more posts before posting links or photos.

Quote:
this gave me RGB values of 200, 199, 199 and that's the only grey I can find that has rgb values this close together so that should suit right?
That comes out to an N8 shade of gray. I think Mech recommended you go darker. The paint color I had recommended isn't as neutral, but it is still within our relatively strict neutrality standards. Also, it has been our experience that the RGB values quoted by a paint manufacturer aren't strict, but are more suggestions. We generally like to recommend the most neutral paints possible so that normal variances in color due to a number of factors will still result in an acceptably neutral paint.

Quote:
So if I get the wash and wear Matt will that be the right way to go?
I'm no expert on Dulux paints, but I believe others have used that type with success.

Quote:
It is not the darkest of greys but it is neutral.
That it is!

Quote:
So the wall is already painted white and it's not ancient should I still do an undercoat? the wall is fairly flat but I had to repair a hole we had to cut to install the projector cables so it's not perfect. Is there an undercoat I can use to help make it as flat as possible before painting?
Many times you can paint over an existing paint with no problems, but the more gloss the previous paint has the more reason it should be primed before painting again. If you have repaired a section of the wall that will become the screen then definitely prime before painting, and if you need to flatten the repaired area do so before priming. I assume that undercoating and primer are the same thing.

Quote:
Also I hear the mohair roller will give me the flattest results is this correct.
I don't roll so I looked up some info on this and according to this link the mohair roller is an excellent choice!

Quote:
Thanks again for all your time on this guys much appreciated!!
No worries!!!
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post #28 of 40 Old 01-10-14, 07:18 PM
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Re: Help for a beginner - Black Widow Paint

one last thing, none of the colour names you recommended could be found on the Dulux site. That is the reason I chose this colour. I am curious how you derive the N value. Is it derived from the RGB values?
If so how can I work this out. Also what are the parameters for a neutral paint. ie how close do the values need to be for it to be within acceptable limits?

With this info I can go through and find something a little darker but still within the limits. Also the RGB factors weren't quoted by the manufacturer, I used the colour pic program to decypher them.

Thanks.

If I rack in some more post I can post pics of the work in progress!!
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post #29 of 40 Old 01-10-14, 08:45 PM
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Re: Help for a beginner - Black Widow Paint

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one last thing, none of the colour names you recommended could be found on the Dulux site. That is the reason I chose this colour.
I found the Dulux color 'Milton Moon' on the Gray Colorwall selection. I get an RGB value of 177, 180, 178 using a color eyedropper function of a program I run in my Firefox browser called Colorzilla, but I sometimes still use ColorPic - they give the same RGB values.

Quote:
I am curious how you derive the N value. Is it derived from the RGB values?
If so how can I work this out.
OK, I wasn't "hiding" this information from you, but many people really don't want to know, they just want the final figures. After you get the RGB data of the color you are researching put that data into a free program called OpenRGB (you want to use the 'Calculator' function of this program which I believe is the default setting for it). Below is a screen grab using the RGB values for 'Milton Moon'.



Be sure the Illuminant is set to D65 and the Observer is set to 2 (these are toward the bottom-left of the screen).

Directly above the Illuminant setting are the values for the L*ab color space for the RGB values you just put in. The L* value is the "Lightness" of the color (which is 73.026 for 'Milton Moon'). This value divided by 10 equals the N value from the Munsell Color System which in this case would be N7.3026. We only need the first two digits so we would call this an N7.3 gray. The neutrality of the color comes from the "a" and "b" values of the L*ab color space (also called the L*a*b* or CIELAB color space). Positive values for "a" and "b" denote red and yellow, the higher the value the stronger the color. Negative values for "a" and "b" denote green and blue. A perfectly neutral gray would have "a" and "b" values of 0.0 each, but that rarely happens. The "a" value (which is also called a*) for 'Milton Moon' shows that it is a bit greenish and the b* value shows that it is also a bit yellowish, BUT the fact that both of those values are below 2.0 show that the color passes our Acceptably Neutral test. Our neutrality tests are that both a* and b* values are 2.0 to 1.0 for Acceptably Neutral, 1.0 to 0.5 for Near Neutral and 0.5 to 0.0 for Neutral. These are not arbitrary values, but were determined by direct consultation with Dr. Mark D. Fairchild who is the director of the Munsell Color Science Laboratory and has forgotten more about color science than I will ever know!

Quote:
Also what are the parameters for a neutral paint. ie how close do the values need to be for it to be within acceptable limits?
See above. And thanks for asking the questions! It proves you want to know what is going on with your screen. I will have to warn you though, this stuff is addictive!

Quote:
With this info I can go through and find something a little darker but still within the limits. Also the RGB factors weren't quoted by the manufacturer, I used the colour pic program to decypher them.
Right; sometimes RGB data is given directly by a paint manufacturer and sometimes it can only be gotten from "color picking" their online samples; but even then they are still only approximate.

Quote:
Thanks.
You are more than welcome!

Quote:
If I rack in some more post I can post pics of the work in progress!!
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post #30 of 40 Old 01-10-14, 09:40 PM
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Re: Help for a beginner - Black Widow Paint

Milton Moon it is!!
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