Need quick DIY screen help (SW paint sale ends tomorrow!) - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

 
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post #1 of 10 Old 04-13-14, 10:52 PM Thread Starter
Shackster
 
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Need quick DIY screen help (SW paint sale ends tomorrow!)

Hello everyone! Long time lurker here but just registered a few minutes ago, so this is my first real post.

For well over a year I've been thinking about painting either my wall or some Sintra (Komatex) that I can obtain inexpensively through a friend who owns a sign shop. I noticed several days ago that Sherwin Williams has a 40% off paint sale on through tomorrow (April 14th). I've tried to track down what the latest, greatest formulas are for DIY screen painting, but it seems the older screen paints are extinct due to changes in various companies' paint formulations.

Can someone point me to a thread or two (or just fill me in here) on where I can find the most recent formulations here on HTS? I'm not beholden to SW paints, but that is a pretty good sale, isn't it? I also have a Lowe's, a HomeDepot and a Menard's nearby if other paint brands are preferred. Also, I believe I read a few days ago that AAA-F (is that the right name?) still exists but can be used with white paint now due to reformulation. My recollection is that some of the really good formulations used the AAA-F to increase contrast (and gain slightly, I assume?).

If I use Sintra, I'm thinking of painting both sides so that I can have an ambient light (gray) screen and a light-controlled "mancave" screen (white). I'm using an Epson HomeCinema 8350 projector, I'd like my screen to be approximately 120" diagonal, the projector will be about 15' from the screen, and the room is able to be light-controlled when I want it to be.

Any recommendations?
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post #2 of 10 Old 04-13-14, 11:22 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Need quick DIY screen help (SW paint sale ends tomorrow!)

Aha, found one promising looking thread: Help for a beginner - Black Widow Paint. Just starting to browse through it. I think I glanced at this thread briefly a few weeks ago. Will update as needed.
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post #3 of 10 Old 04-13-14, 11:45 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Need quick DIY screen help (SW paint sale ends tomorrow!)

Okay, found this thread with posts by mechman and harpmaker (Steve & Don).

Are people using these gray tints straight up now with no added ingredients like AAA-F, etc.? Also, is the Glidden Premium white base is the best way to go when choosing a base paint to tint? I see that Yiannis added Benjamin Moore "515 01 White" flat finish (251 252 252) to the list. That looks quite white and quite neutral. Does anyone know if it's available here in the U.S.?

Thank you in advance!
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post #4 of 10 Old 04-14-14, 01:26 AM
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Re: Need quick DIY screen help (SW paint sale ends tomorrow!)

Quote:
pianoguy wrote: View Post
Okay, found this thread with posts by mechman and harpmaker (Steve & Don).

Are people using these gray tints straight up now with no added ingredients like AAA-F, etc.? Also, is the Glidden Premium white base is the best way to go when choosing a base paint to tint? I see that Yiannis added Benjamin Moore "515 01 White" flat finish (251 252 252) to the list. That looks quite white and quite neutral. Does anyone know if it's available here in the U.S.?

Thank you in advance!
Welcome to HTS!

Glad you found that thread. Sherwin-Williams stores can make their paints to the Glidden colors. If you want to use actual SW colors I recommend SW 'Ice Cube' for a N9 gray and 'Unique Grey' for a N8 gray; use the SW 'Duration' interior paint in matte finish.

I'm not familiar with the BM gloss levels to recommend one of them at this time. Valspar Signature in matte finish and SW Duration in matte finish both have the same gloss rating that is a tad above a true flat finish which gives them a tad more gain. The Glidden Premium GLN9000 paint at Home Depot is a very neutral white paint, but is only available in flat finish and eggshell finish (and higher); the eggshell has too much gloss and will hot spot while the flat finish is really flat.

PJ's are getting brighter every year so the need to use a reflectively enhanced screen mix (like Black Widow Ultra™ or C&S™ Ultra) is dropping; all that is needed much of the time nowadays is a simple neutral gray paint.
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post #5 of 10 Old 04-14-14, 07:08 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Need quick DIY screen help (SW paint sale ends tomorrow!)

Thank you for the welcome and helpful response, Don! I've decided to forego the SW paint and will stick with one of the tried and true paints, probably the Glidden.

Could you clarify for me the difference between using straight paint only vs. paint plus additive (i.e., aluminum flakes, silver, etc.)? Is the only advantage of the additive an increase in screen gain? Does the additive also help improve contrast ratio? Any other advantages or disadvantages of "with" vs. "without" additives?

BTW...just got some slightly disheartening news - my source for Sintra/Komatex at cost has dried up and the new ownership wants to charge me ~$300 for what my friend would have charged me ~$30 for. Guess I'll have to look for another substrate that's at least 4' x 10' upon which to paint. Or I could use the wall itself. Or I could try using WilsonArt DW laminate instead of painting. (The WA DW def needs to be glued to some kind of stiffer backing, correct?) So many options...

Last edited by pianoguy; 04-14-14 at 07:14 PM.
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post #6 of 10 Old 04-14-14, 10:10 PM
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Re: Need quick DIY screen help (SW paint sale ends tomorrow!)

Quote:
pianoguy wrote: View Post
Thank you for the welcome and helpful response, Don! I've decided to forego the SW paint and will stick with one of the tried and true paints, probably the Glidden.

Could you clarify for me the difference between using straight paint only vs. paint plus additive (i.e., aluminum flakes, silver, etc.)? Is the only advantage of the additive an increase in screen gain? Does the additive also help improve contrast ratio? Any other advantages or disadvantages of "with" vs. "without" additives?
Using paint without any reflective particles in it will ensure that you never see any graininess in the projected image no matter how close you set to it. We have had very little problem of that with the aluminum paint we use (Auto Air Aluminum - fine) or the mica-based Liquitex BASICS Silver paint used to make Cream&Sugar™ Ultra; but either of those paints could produce such if too bright an image was being projected and the viewing distance was VERY close.

The reflective particles added to a screen mix will work with a projected image (which is quite directional) to create a brighter image than a regular paint that is the same color gray. The original Black Widow™ mix was an N7.5 gray, but a projected image looked about the same brightness as if a N8 or N8.3 regular gray screen was being used. The advantage was that off-axis ambient light was being absorbed more by the N7.5 Black Widow™ screen than it would if the screen was a lighter gray.

I want to point out that reflective particles in paint have NOTHING to do with increasing image contrast. I know another well known DIY Screen forum loves to say that they do, but they are simply wrong. The only thing that affects PERCEIVED image contrast is how dark a gray the screen is. The darker the gray the greater the perceived contrast. This is a type of optical illusion because the actual image contrast isn't being changed. A screen can only reflect what light hits it. This contrast enhancement illusion works because of the way our eyes/brains judge contrast, which is by how dark blacks are in the image. A gray screen will deepen blacks, but it will deepen whites by almost the same amount (this is due to the added gain from the particles) - that is simple physics. As long as the white levels are not too diminished we will see a white car, white dress, etc. and our brains will tell us that they really are white when in fact they are a gray. Also note that as a screens gain is increased it WILL get a viewing cone; the higher the gain the narrower the viewing cone.

Quote:
BTW...just got some slightly disheartening news - my source for Sintra/Komatex at cost has dried up and the new ownership wants to charge me ~$300 for what my friend would have charged me ~$30 for. Guess I'll have to look for another substrate that's at least 4' x 10' upon which to paint. Or I could use the wall itself. Or I could try using WilsonArt DW laminate instead of painting. (The WA DW def needs to be glued to some kind of stiffer backing, correct?) So many options...
Ouch! That is a ridiculous price for that substrate.

Yes, laminates have to be glued to a thicker substrate.
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post #7 of 10 Old 04-21-14, 01:19 PM
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Re: Need quick DIY screen help (SW paint sale ends tomorrow!)

Hello.

I live in Brazil and I'm thinking about BW Ultra on my MDF 120" white screen.

I'm using an Optoma HD25e projecting 120" from 4m distance on a totally light controlled (dark) room. My background and the first 50cm of my ceiling and side walls are black too.

I'm not satisfied with the black levels I have. I want to improve it but I don't want too loose too much brightness because I watch some 3D movies too.

What's your opinion for my case ? Do you think I could use a simple neutral gray paint without the mix ? Here in Brazil I found 00NN 53/000 "veil" paint. Is it enough for my needs ?

Thank u so much!


Quote:
Harpmaker wrote: View Post
Welcome to HTS!

Glad you found that thread. Sherwin-Williams stores can make their paints to the Glidden colors. If you want to use actual SW colors I recommend SW 'Ice Cube' for a N9 gray and 'Unique Grey' for a N8 gray; use the SW 'Duration' interior paint in matte finish.

I'm not familiar with the BM gloss levels to recommend one of them at this time. Valspar Signature in matte finish and SW Duration in matte finish both have the same gloss rating that is a tad above a true flat finish which gives them a tad more gain. The Glidden Premium GLN9000 paint at Home Depot is a very neutral white paint, but is only available in flat finish and eggshell finish (and higher); the eggshell has too much gloss and will hot spot while the flat finish is really flat.

PJ's are getting brighter every year so the need to use a reflectively enhanced screen mix (like Black Widow Ultra™ or C&S™ Ultra) is dropping; all that is needed much of the time nowadays is a simple neutral gray paint.
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post #8 of 10 Old 04-22-14, 10:18 AM
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Re: Need quick DIY screen help (SW paint sale ends tomorrow!)

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mechman wrote: View Post
I would start out just trying the Veil. If you don't like it, you can always change it.
Thanks for your reply. Should I use Flat, Matte or Satin finish ?
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post #9 of 10 Old 04-23-14, 01:37 AM
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Re: Need quick DIY screen help (SW paint sale ends tomorrow!)

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mechman wrote: View Post
Try out Matte. Satin will most likely hot spot.
Does using the AAA mix reduces the viewing angle ? Adding the AAA only raises the brightness or darken the blacks ?
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post #10 of 10 Old 04-23-14, 02:12 AM
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Re: Need quick DIY screen help (SW paint sale ends tomorrow!)

Quote:
FabioMC wrote: View Post
Does using the AAA mix reduces the viewing angle ? Adding the AAA only raises the brightness or darken the blacks ?
No, the addition of AAA does not reduce the viewing angle (aka hot spot). It raises a bit the luminosity. On the other hand, the gray base darkens the blacks.
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