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post #101 of 1197 Old 02-01-08, 12:21 PM Thread Starter
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re: Black Widow PFG - the Discussion - Black Widow

Quote:
Harpmaker wrote: View Post
Thanks for the reply Bill. I want to be clear that I'm not being argumentative either, really, I'm just trying to understand this correctly.

Great treatise on iridescence!

Perhaps Texas Instruments is simplifying the matter too much, but their explanation of how a single-chip DLP projector works ( http://www.dlp.com/tech/what.aspx ) says, in both text and graphic, that the DLP chip is struck by only red, green and blue light (the light that passes through the color filters on the color wheel), thus only red green and blue light hits our screens using such a PJ, and only one color at a time. It is the "persistence of vision" of our eyes that makes us see the full visible light spectrum. As I'm sure you know, it is the same phenomenon that lets us watch a CRT television without seeing the even and odd scan fields, but rather one image that doesn't flicker.

If what T.I. says is true, I don't understand how iridescence can come into play with such a PJ.
You have MUCH more experience with this stuff than I do, and if you say iridescence is a problem I believe you.

The next time I have my PJ in my "lab" I'll do some testing and see if I can work this out so I finally "get it".
What they say is true but you have to keep in mind we see a complex image that is produced by the projector. In order to see the image and colors, mirrors are turned on and off to control the pixels, and the color wheel sends the light. To get a color other than red, blue, or green it rapidly passes light through different color segments. Our eyes combine it into the 'color'.

The reason I talked about iridescence was you asked about the prism effect of mica. I see what you were getting at now though.

I really don't think the type of screen you are talking about is feasable, and definitely not by any DIY means that I know of. I suppose a person could play with Red, Green, and Blue transparant films laid over top of each other, but I'm not sure how well that would work. Translating transparant sheets to a translucent paint would bext to impossible to control the outcome on our level.

Also it seems like this type of screen if it worked would be exclusive to DLP projectors would it not?

Might make an interesting thread if you want to start one up and check into it.

"Make everything as simple as possible, but no simpler." - Albert Einstein

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post #102 of 1197 Old 02-01-08, 12:45 PM Thread Starter
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re: Black Widow PFG - the Discussion - Black Widow

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Thanks Bill. I guess I should have explained myself a bit better. I should have stated....what is the difference between aluminum and silver mica when put into a paint mix or media? The refractive properties of coated mica flakes and the reflective properties of aluminum must change. I have no scientific proof of this. But using common sense, when mica flakes are mixed into a paint or some other media, how do their properties change? The refractive properties would have to b e different? mech has stated he did not see the prism effect with the mica powders I have used. I assume the reflective properties of the aluminum flakes change. Maybe this requires more discussion/investigation.

And yes, my bad mech, I shouldn't have hijacked this thread
One thing to note is the Micro Pearl seems to be a much finer size of flakes as compared to the craft paint pearls. I think that is the biggest factor right there, better quality.

Even mixed in paint, unless the paint is a heavy clay based paint, or loaded with Ti02, it will have some translucent properties to it, at least on the outer surface. If it didn't, then it would just cover the mica and what would be the benefit of mica, aluminum or anything mixed with the paint itself? But paint does allow light to penetrate to a point. Aluminum will reflect the light back without any of it passing through the aluminum flake. Mica is translucent and allows light to pass through it, and when the light passes through the mica it gets refracted. That's what causes the sparkles of colors we see.

I think if a major amount of micro pearl were used then you would start seeing the iridescent effect begin. Like I said, I believe it's because this is a finer particle size that is the real key.

Can you see from the 10X shot of the Pearl Silver though that if that was added at a higher concentration than what you used color separation definitely would show up? Not a slam or anything, just my observations. Ben I am almost thinking you could drop the Pearl Silver from the main mix and not even notice. That might be a topic for the CG thread though.

There are some companies that make a Ti02 coated mica, but honestly, I'm not really sure what the benefit of that is over getting a high quality paint that is already rich Ti02.

"Make everything as simple as possible, but no simpler." - Albert Einstein

"If all else fails, spin the cat."- Grzboken
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post #103 of 1197 Old 02-01-08, 01:46 PM
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re: Black Widow PFG - the Discussion - Black Widow

Hi Bill,

You're misunderstanding me, but rather than continue to talk about this in this thread I'll start a new one.
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post #104 of 1197 Old 02-07-08, 07:46 PM
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Re: Black Widow PFG

So look for that to be coming in the next few weeks... the prototype worked, so now it's time to build the real McCoy.[/QUOTE]

Hi, wbassett. I been away from this forum for several months while researching and trying to organize the purchase of my first projector. Hopefully my Epson Powerlite HC 1080UB should be coming in today.

I've been trying to decide how to go screenwise (since I can't afford to buy a manufactured one) and have been intrigued by the notions of Wilsonart laminate, pvc vinyl and painting.

As an American currently living in Australia I do find that much of the great advice given on these fourms is not really applicable to me with regards to material availablity.

If my Epson can handle it, I would like to build a screen 12 to 14 foot wide which, if the projection calculator on Projector Central is correct, would give me a screen height of between 6.7 and 8 feet.

I can get Wilsonart laminates here but the biggest size is 12 ft. by 5 ft. (too small for my screen.)

I looked into the pvc vinyl from Dazian but for the size I want I would be paying about $1400 plus the shipping cost from New Jersey to Sydney Australia.

Suddenly a sheetrock wall painted white or this aluminum is looking pretty good.

Which brings me to Black Widow PFG. Some questions for you, if you don't mind.

What are you guys painting this on to. The Wilsonart laminate?
Sheetrock? Canvas?

I will re-read these forums posts, but since most of your successful results seem very product specific, it may be that I'm back to square one or reduced to expensive experimentation myself. (or have my friends in L.A. ship those massive paint cans to me).

Thanks, wbassett and I look forward to seeing how the new screen build turns out.

Kane
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post #105 of 1197 Old 02-07-08, 08:06 PM Thread Starter
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re: Black Widow PFG - the Discussion - Black Widow

Welcome to the Shack kane!

I wouldn't paint laminate, it's just too expensive to use as a substrate. Other than that, anything you can paint you can apply this to.

Can you get either Henry HE558 down there or Creatix Auto Air Aluminum fine? That's really the key, if you can get it. Dick Blick sells AA Aluminum, but I don't know if they ship to Australia, but don't see why they would not. if you can get it, next question is what brands of paints do you have available, or can your local stores call up color matches for Sherwin Williams or True Value? If not, could they contact them and ask for the color code?

"Make everything as simple as possible, but no simpler." - Albert Einstein

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post #106 of 1197 Old 02-07-08, 09:08 PM
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re: Black Widow PFG - the Discussion - Black Widow

Hi, Bill.

I'll have to see what's available here. I haven't been off the computer since I first read this thread.

Hardware store can do matches so if I can't get the actual products I can get the color codes from here and match it.

As Mech or you or one of the others said, my best bet is probably to see how the Epson looks on my white wall first.

Off to call the audio store about my projector. It's been two weeks since i ordered it. epson says no problems with supply, but I don't know why it's taking so long since there are only 12 outlets in the whole country.

As Prof. says "Home theatre....the never ending story."

I'll let you know what I find out.

Kane
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post #107 of 1197 Old 02-07-08, 10:25 PM
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re: Black Widow PFG - the Discussion - Black Widow

Hi Kane and welcome on two counts..

Katoomba is nice country...watch out for the bushfires though!!..

Stealing my motto eh!!...

I'm also looking at the possibility of making up a Black Widow, but as you mentioned none of the brands suggested are available here..

My feeling is that we will have to find a close base paint, perhaps getting a US paint matched to a local colour..and then experimenting with various silvers of local brands (none of the mentioned ones being available here again) using standard paints, craft paints, artists paints etc..

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post #108 of 1197 Old 02-07-08, 10:29 PM
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re: Black Widow PFG - the Discussion - Black Widow

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mechman wrote: View Post
Kane,

I know that <^..^>Smokey Joe is researching aluminum a bit in New Zealand. You may want to pm him.

mech
Mech..Paints that are available in New Zealand are rarely available in all States of Australia!

Prof..
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post #109 of 1197 Old 02-07-08, 10:33 PM Thread Starter
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re: Black Widow PFG - the Discussion - Black Widow

Prof/Kane... Dick Blick does ship over seas, granted it would probably cost four times what the Auto Air costs though

The other question would be... would they send aluminum paint and would it clear customs?

"Make everything as simple as possible, but no simpler." - Albert Einstein

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post #110 of 1197 Old 02-07-08, 10:47 PM
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re: Black Widow PFG - the Discussion - Black Widow

Short answer Bill...NO..
As I mentioned recently, you can't ship any canned paints into Aus. or post between States in Aus., without a special permit, reserved for importers and distributors..
Within Australia, you can road deliver paints between States but it can get expensive for just a couple of cans..

Kane who is in New South Wales and me in South Australia, would need to be able to access the same brands of paint to maintain the correct colour base, plus the same alum. additive..

Prof..
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