Black Widow PFG - the Discussion - Black Widow - Page 120 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

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post #1191 of 1197 Old 04-27-13, 09:27 PM
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Don
 
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Re: Black Widow PFG - the Discussion - Black Widow

Thanks lgreis! That is good info to have!
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post #1192 of 1197 Old 04-28-13, 10:46 AM
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Re: Black Widow PFG - the Discussion - Black Widow

Thank you Harpmaker for your scientific research and for telling us that there is paint OTS like Dulux/Glidden that rivals the best´s comercial screen´s like Stewart Studiotek 1.3 for 1000% less!!! Am I right?
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post #1193 of 1197 Old 04-28-13, 12:25 PM
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Re: Black Widow PFG - the Discussion - Black Widow

Quote:
Harpmaker wrote: View Post
Thanks lgreis! That is good info to have!
+1000!!!

Thank you very much lgreis!!!

I haven't tried Vivechrom yet!!
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post #1194 of 1197 Old 04-28-13, 12:56 PM
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Re: Black Widow PFG - the Discussion - Black Widow

Quote:
lgreis wrote: View Post
Thank you Harpmaker for your scientific research and for telling us that there is paint OTS like Dulux/Glidden that rivals the best´s comercial screen´s like Stewart Studiotek 1.3 for 1000% less!!! Am I right?
Yes! A neutral OTS paint can match, or beat, the performance of many basic commercial screens. When it comes to gains over 1.0 things get a bit more complicated. When a screen has a "peak gain" or "on-axis" gain (they are the same thing) over 1.0 there WILL be a decrease in viewing angle since the screen cannot generate light and only reflects it. If the screen is reflecting more light at one viewing angle than it MUST be reflecting less light at another viewing angle. This applies to all screens commercial and DIY, it's physics. There are a number of negative viewing artifacts that can result from increasing gain, what they are depends on what method is used.

In an OTS paint the only way to increase gain is to either add gloss or some kind of reflective agent to the paint. Commercial screens can add gain in like fashion and thus both commercial and DIY screens would have the same performance. The newer hi-tech commercial screens like the SI Black Diamond and DNP Supernova are made with what I call an "engineered finish" that effectively lets them control light reflection as if the screen had millions of micro-lenses in it; these types of screens cannot be achieved with any kind of paint mix.
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post #1195 of 1197 Old 04-30-13, 04:06 AM
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Re: Black Widow PFG - the Discussion - Black Widow

One thing makes me a little confused, it was the diamond finish of the glidden 450 that the dulux light and space doesnt have. The finish that makes the paint 20 times tougher and gives diferent rgb readings between Glidden and Dulux. Thats because MAYBE the glidden titanium 450 IS NOT dulux light and space, but Dulux Ultra White (this one has the same lumitec tec. that L&S has and the Diamond Tough formulation that the glidden 450 has!)
http://www.dulux.co.uk/products/ultra-white/

BUT without the diamond formulation the paint is slightly brighter, so more gain!?
The readings that is on the net:

Glidden Diamond 450 Titanium White:/ Dulux Ultra White
36.35 31.6 245,246,243 1.43

Dulux Light & Space Absolute White Rich Matt
RGB 249 250 247

So if the Glidden Diamond 450 IS NOT the Dulux Light & Space, Maybe the Glidden Lifemaster Interior Flat Mate Paint IS! It has the Lumitec tec. and dont have the diamond finish!
http://www.gliddenprofessional.com/s...emaster_No_VOC

If the Carrada has this readings, how much gain has the L&S?

Carrada Brilliant White 1.4 Gain:
36.1 30.8 242,242,236 3.22

Stewart Filmscreen StudioTek 130 screen material is RGB 250 241 249, so L&S is a more neutral and brighter screen?

This makes the NON diamond finish a better choice (same neutral but more brighness) and maybe a smoother finish for a White Screen?

Last edited by lgreis; 04-30-13 at 05:15 AM.
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post #1196 of 1197 Old 04-30-13, 06:41 AM
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Re: Black Widow PFG - the Discussion - Black Widow

Quote:
lgreis wrote: View Post
One thing makes me a little confused, it was the diamond finish of the glidden 450 that the dulux light and space doesnt have. The finish that makes the paint 20 times tougher and gives diferent rgb readings between Glidden and Dulux. Thats because MAYBE the glidden titanium 450 IS NOT dulux light and space, but Dulux Ultra White (this one has the same lumitec tec. that L&S has and the Diamond Tough formulation that the glidden 450 has!)
http://www.dulux.co.uk/products/ultra-white/

BUT without the diamond formulation the paint is slightly brighter, so more gain!?
The readings that is on the net:

Glidden Diamond 450 Titanium White:/ Dulux Ultra White
36.35 31.6 245,246,243 1.43

Dulux Light & Space Absolute White Rich Matt
RGB 249 250 247

So if the Glidden Diamond 450 IS NOT the Dulux Light & Space, Maybe the Glidden Lifemaster Interior Flat Mate Paint IS! It has the Lumitec tec. and dont have the diamond finish!
http://www.gliddenprofessional.com/s...emaster_No_VOC

If the Carrada has this readings, how much gain has the L&S?

Carrada Brilliant White 1.4 Gain:
36.1 30.8 242,242,236 3.22

Stewart Filmscreen StudioTek 130 screen material is RGB 250 241 249, so L&S is a more neutral and brighter screen?

This makes the NON diamond finish a better choice (same neutral but more brighness) and maybe a smoother finish for a White Screen?
As i understand it (thanks Harp!!), it's all about sheen/finish. When we talk about gain, that's the crucial factor. Take BW for example. According to RGB numbers should have a gain of 0.5, instead with the addition of aluminum goes to 0.9. Same thing here...


Glidden Diamond 450 Titanium White:/ Dulux Ultra White
36.35 31.6 245,246,243 1.43

L = 96.73, Y = 91,79, which means 0.92 gain.



Dulux Light & Space Absolute White Rich Matt
RGB 249 250 247

L = 98.12, Y = 95,22, which means 0.95 gain.


Carrada Brilliant White 1.4 Gain:
36.1 30.8 242,242,236 3.22

L = 95.34, Y = 88,43, which means 0.89 gain.


Stewart Filmscreen StudioTek 130
RGB 250 241 249

L = 96.02, Y = 90,07, which means 0.9 gain.




So, if you measure and take different luminosity values, that means that a gloss sheen is present on each screen.


I believe Don can explain this to you better!!



PS

Are you sure about Stewart's values? It seems that's way off in terms of color neutrality.
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post #1197 of 1197 Old 05-07-13, 09:09 PM
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Re: Black Widow PFG - the Discussion - Black Widow

Rather than bore folks with gobs of data (at least at this early stage) I'll simply report the results of my testing of the new AAA-F this way... just mix it with any neutral gray paint 4:1 and it will work well!

Right now, the formula for the new BW™ mix would be to use a quart of paint tinted to Glidden 'Veil' as the base paint and then add 8 fl. oz. of the new AAA-F. We need to do more testing to see if the gain of the mix is the same as the old BW™. This will probably occur over the course of the summer.

Now to answer a BIG question: how can I tell if my AAA-F is made with the old or the new aluminum? The answer is easy and is the same for everyone around the world. Every bottle of AAA-F has a UPC label on it that also contains a batch number such as WDNC18-86BS(1). The key digits are the two after the hyphen. In the example those numbers are 86. Numbers of 81 and higher are the new AAA-F and numbers of 80 and lower are the old AAA-F.

The new AAA-F can be added to any neutral gray paint 4:1.
The old AAA-F must use a base tinted PPG 'Bermuda Beige' 4:1 to result in a neutral mix.

My thanks go out to the folks at Createx! They were very easy to talk to and bent over backwards to help us.
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