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post #71 of 1197 Old 01-24-08, 02:03 PM
tradewinds
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Re: Black Widow PFG

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wbassett wrote: View Post

Sherwin Williams Gray Screen just seemed to work better for me and my tastes. With that said, I saw an improvement going from Silver Screen in a flat finish to Gray Screen in a matte finish, and BW PFG blows Gray Screen out of the water in my opinion. Trust me on this too, as the person that found Gray Screen and as much as I love it (and Winter Mountain) this is better. Color reproduction is just as accurate but have a bolder look, Whites are just as white as GS (and GS has some pretty impressive whites), shadow detail is better and there is more depth and a 3D look- especially with HD content, and there is no contest with blacks.

Here's a secret... the darker your blacks look the whiter your whites will look.
This is very helpful comparison for someone who looks at all types of shades and surfaces.
Quote:
they may want to use the white base over the Winter Mountain base, but we plan on getting more testing in that area too.
Where did Winter Mountain come from with BW PFG? I thought it was Winter Mist, I am getting confused again
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post #72 of 1197 Old 01-24-08, 02:13 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Black Widow PFG

Sorry about that, I meant to say Winter Mist, just had the other on my mind I guess! I corrected that.

"Make everything as simple as possible, but no simpler." - Albert Einstein

"If all else fails, spin the cat."- Grzboken
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post #73 of 1197 Old 01-24-08, 02:56 PM
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Re: Black Widow PFG

Would it be a correct assumption to believe that the addition of aluminum brings up the gain of the underlying white paint (while at the same time making it look gray?)

The reason for my curiosity is to wonder what would happen if one were to mix this aluminum paint with a matte polyurethane and put it on a DW or FG panel. It would seem to me that by mixing the aluminum directly in with the underlying color coat as in the formulation you're testing, the effect of the aluminum is diminished as the aluminum particles will be competing with, and in some cases behind white pigmentation particles.

In the case of aluminum in polyurethane, over-top a white or gray base, though, it would seem that you'd get some deeper light penetration and the aluminum's effect wouldn't be diminished at all. This could give you a higher gain white or gray screen. Not to say that you should be seeking gain for gain's sake, but you might get the benefits of both worlds then. The deeper blacks of a true gray screen, along with the whiter whites and color neutrality of an aluminum coated screen.

I'm in no position to test this theory, but the engineer in me really wonders, and since no one has mentioned it, I thought I'd suggest it and see what you think?
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post #74 of 1197 Old 01-24-08, 03:27 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Black Widow PFG

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riskpeep wrote: View Post
Would it be a correct assumption to believe that the addition of aluminum brings up the gain of the underlying white paint (while at the same time making it look gray?)

Correct.

The reason for my curiosity is to wonder what would happen if one were to mix this aluminum paint with a matte polyurethane and put it on a DW or FG panel. It would seem to me that by mixing the aluminum directly in with the underlying color coat as in the formulation you're testing, the effect of the aluminum is diminished as the aluminum particles will be competing with, and in some cases behind white pigmentation particles.

This is actually being tested, but initial reports are that it's messy, hard to roll.

In the case of aluminum in polyurethane, over-top a white or gray base, though, it would seem that you'd get some deeper light penetration and the aluminum's effect wouldn't be diminished at all. This could give you a higher gain white or gray screen. Not to say that you should be seeking gain for gain's sake, but you might get the benefits of both worlds then. The deeper blacks of a true gray screen, along with the whiter whites and color neutrality of an aluminum coated screen.

That's a lot of the original concept- trying to balance whites and deep blacks while mantaining color accuracy.

I'm in no position to test this theory, but the engineer in me really wonders, and since no one has mentioned it, I thought I'd suggest it and see what you think?
A lot of us are engineers too or in a technical field.

Hopefully you can see there has been a lot of testing and data readings done before presenting this. We didn't want to just throw something together and guess at the recommended paints to use.

I renamed the original thread when this was in development from 'Pigment Free Gray- A New Gray Screen' to 'Pigment Free Gray- Theory and Testing'

Sometimes theory discussions can get way off the beaten path for a presentation thread and is usually more than the average person looking for a screen is interested in. Sure there are some charts and tech talk in here but it's just enough to explain what this is and why it works.

You nailed it though... Aluminum is bright and reflective but doesn't refract light so it doesn't break it down like mica can and cause a prism affect.

"Make everything as simple as possible, but no simpler." - Albert Einstein

"If all else fails, spin the cat."- Grzboken
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post #75 of 1197 Old 01-28-08, 02:34 PM
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re: Black Widow PFG - the Discussion - Black Widow

Muzz, are you using the WM or the LW base in the PFG mix? I noticed on the other thread you mentioned the following:

Quote:
I went slightly different, my mix is Benjamin Moore Chantilly Lace, @ 4.5:1
Note sure if you were referring to BW PFG.
post #76 of 1197 Old 01-28-08, 03:13 PM
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re: Black Widow PFG - the Discussion - Black Widow

Chantilly Lace is the Benjamin Moore Color that is a decent match for SW Luminous White.
I like Ben Moore paints, and prefer to use them.

I did use it for the BW, instead of Luminous White.

Still testing, and awaiting a new bulb, as mine has over 2K hours on it.
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post #77 of 1197 Old 01-29-08, 11:49 AM
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re: Black Widow PFG - the Discussion - Black Widow

Quote:
mechman wrote: View Post
tradewinds,

I think we're gonna pull the recommendation for LW as we've gotten wonky readings from two separate sources. Winter Mist, however, gives us dead on neutral readings from two separate sources!

mech
cool...on my earlier post I did ask about this but didn't realize the LW was bad enough to be pulled. Now I have to drive a long ways to get the WM... No problem though, I'm glad you guys pulled it before I purchased.
post #78 of 1197 Old 01-29-08, 01:26 PM
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re: Black Widow PFG - the Discussion - Black Widow

Quote:
tradewinds wrote: View Post
cool...on my earlier post I did ask about this but didn't realize the LW was bad enough to be pulled. Now I have to drive a long ways to get the WM... No problem though, I'm glad you guys pulled it before I purchased.
Hang on a second Tradewinds. I can save you the gas money and driving time by sending you a sample of WM for your local SW store to match. Just PM me a mailing address.
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post #79 of 1197 Old 01-29-08, 01:28 PM
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re: Black Widow PFG - the Discussion - Black Widow

Harp, I appreciate the offer very much, but believe me I would not have my SW store match anything. I took in a piece of GOM fabric for them to match and the machine gave some weird color. I had to wait there hours for them to match it the old fashion way...by eyeballs
post #80 of 1197 Old 01-29-08, 02:37 PM
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re: Black Widow PFG - the Discussion - Black Widow

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tradewinds wrote: View Post
Harp, I appreciate the offer very much, but believe me I would not have my SW store match anything. I took in a piece of GOM fabric for them to match and the machine gave some weird color. I had to wait there hours for them to match it the old fashion way...by eyeballs
To be fair, fabric can be tougher to match than a flat paint. I do understand though.
The offer still stands.

Before you drive all that way to the True Value store, make sure you have the formula for Winter Mist with you! Some stores don't have it, or look up the wrong tint values (been there! ).
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