Anyone willing to build Crossovers? - Page 2 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

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post #11 of 26 Old 03-17-08, 05:24 PM
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Re: Anyone willing to build Crossovers?

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JCD wrote: View Post
I didn't think the crossover was designed by Madisound but rather by Joe D'Appolito.
In fact, I thought most of the designs on their website weren't their own -- I could be very wrong of course.

Not trying to sidetrack the OP, but what didn't your friend like about the Thor?

JCD
I'm trying to remember exactly. I know I heard them several years ago at a DIY event and didn't like them at all, regardless of the fact that Joe D designed them. They were very cold and analytical; had no bass to speak of which is mostly due to the fact that the TL is too short.

Jim said the frequency response was far from flat, with a peak in the tweeter's response that causes the cold sound. His are actually a commercial design that were the smaller MTM cabinets similar to the Odins that he bought used (I won't mention the manufacturer, for obvious reasons) but use the exact same drivers. Both the Odins and Thors use the same xo. When he was dissatisfied with the original xo he bought the Odin/Thor xo's from Madisound. He said that they sounded "terrible".

Several people have built his updated version and like it very much. Although I never heard his before the re-design, I can tell you they sound nothing like I remember the Thors sounding a few years ago.

There's a 4 page thread on HTGuide about the re-design if anyone is interested in reading it.

http://htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=26754
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post #12 of 26 Old 03-17-08, 10:36 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Anyone willing to build Crossovers?

Seems like DIY crossovers is gonna be outta my league sorry to say. As an alternative, what do you guys think about full range drivers like the TB titanium 4" drivers ?
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post #13 of 26 Old 03-17-08, 10:46 PM
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Re: Anyone willing to build Crossovers?

The TB titanium drivers will require some sort of response shaping filter for them to be listenable as a full range speaker. If you want full range with no filter, try the 4" bamboo TB's. I built a pair of bipole surrounds with them and tested them out as the L/R speakers in my system. They sounded very good with no filter at all.
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post #14 of 26 Old 03-18-08, 06:34 AM
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Re: Anyone willing to build Crossovers?

Actually, you have a good idea here: start with a full range driver as an introduction to crossover design.

Full range speakers usually only need a notch filter and a protective filter to make them sound good. The protective one is usually a bass filter, designed to limit over-excursion. The notch filter is usually around the breakup node, to keep the peaks or harsh distortion from getting through.

The best part about both of these is that they can be designed using online or simple calculation tools. Still trial and error, but you don't have to match slopes, or pad tweeters, or use impedance compensation circuits, etc.

You may still want to invest in a mic to help you find out where to put the filters -- but using RoomEQWizard and posting the measurements here, we can probably help with something that simple.

Then once you get some confidence in your crossover-fu you can start trying two and three way speakers
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post #15 of 26 Old 03-18-08, 10:56 AM
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Re: Anyone willing to build Crossovers?

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Seems like DIY crossovers is gonna be outta my league sorry to say. As an alternative, what do you guys think about full range drivers like the TB titanium 4" drivers ?
I agree with you, Brian and Anthony - full rangers aren't a bad place to start. I spent a lot of my early design time on full rangers. They are neat and are excellent for vocals but tend to not do so great on the highest and lowest octaves.

I'd also suggest buying some cheap drivers and doing some experimenting. Crossover design seems daunting at first but with a little reading and hands-on experimenting it rapidly stops being black magic. I'd say with less than $100 in cheap drivers and electronic parts you can get a very solid foundation in crossover design which will allow you to do more complicated and impressive designs.


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post #16 of 26 Old 03-18-08, 11:25 AM
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Re: Anyone willing to build Crossovers?

You could do a line array with a bunch of inexpensive drivers. With a little judicious eq'ing, you should be able to get decently low. The high end may be a little more problematic, but depending on which driver you use, you might be able to get some decent upper octave extension too.

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post #17 of 26 Old 03-18-08, 06:36 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Anyone willing to build Crossovers?

After much thought i think i'll give some full range drivers a try. I've heard some great things about those TB 4" titaniums so i was thinking to buy some 5" aluminum spheres and make my own gallo type drivers mounted above a ported enclosure with two 6.5" dayton woofers crossed at 150 hz.Not sure if 1 or 2 4" will be needed. Not too much in materials and at least i'll start a collection of drivers to play with.
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post #18 of 26 Old 03-18-08, 07:17 PM
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Re: Anyone willing to build Crossovers?

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After much thought i think i'll give some full range drivers a try. I've heard some great things about those TB 4" titaniums so i was thinking to buy some 5" aluminum spheres and make my own gallo type drivers mounted above a ported enclosure with two 6.5" dayton woofers crossed at 150 hz.Not sure if 1 or 2 4" will be needed. Not too much in materials and at least i'll start a collection of drivers to play with.
A few things. First off the flange of the 4" titanium drivers is 4 15/16" so take that into account when buying the spherical enclosures - 5" may be a tight fit. Also take a look at the PE "Sphericles" for ideas on how to mount drivers into round metal enclosures. I wouldn't copy that design though - as pretty as they are I won't use a speaker with an F3 above 100Hz much less almost 200Hz. It's a pity as those 3" bamboo Tang Bands are great in ported or horn loaded enclosures. The Hi-Vi B3N's would be much better for small sealed enclosures.

The second thing is about the 150Hz crossover. Typically you want to cross over at least an octave away from a speaker's frequency range to keep distortion out. Also passive crossovers at low frequencies can get very expensive as larger caps and inductors are needed. You may want to try a higher x-over frequency.

Third having a single 4" reasonably efficient wide range driver and two 6.5" drivers may mean you need to excessivly pad the woofers to keep the levels the same. If you are married to having two 6.5" drivers provide bass you may want to look into more efficient mids - something like most Fostex drivers.

Finally I have a question for you - if you are comfortable making a crossover for the woofers then why not try crossing to a tweeter too? Using a wide bandwidth mid means you can cross to a tweeter higher up than normal which means you can use cheaper tweeters, cheaper x-over parts and the crossover isn't in the ear's most sensitive region (1kHz - 3kHz).

Anyhoo you are on the right path and are asking the right questions. Keep asking questions, listening and learning and you will be soldering up x-overs in no time!


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post #19 of 26 Old 03-18-08, 08:43 PM
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Re: Anyone willing to build Crossovers?

you might want to look at a digital xo like the DBX driverack pa or 260. this will let control many different things including numerous xo points and slopes etc. it will require an amp for all drivers, like any active XO. it will also be far easier to change than anything else.
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post #20 of 26 Old 03-18-08, 11:08 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Anyone willing to build Crossovers?

Thanx Boomie. As you mentioned, the 2 woofs may be a bit much. Thats why i was inquiring about using 2 of the 4" TangBangs as well. What do you think ?
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