DIY sub Eminence LAB12C or XLS10 / XXLS12 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

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post #1 of 35 Old 07-30-14, 07:36 AM Thread Starter
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DIY sub Eminence LAB12C or XLS10 / XXLS12

Hi all
i need advice what to buy/build

I can get those drivers ;
- Eminence LAB12C
http://www.eminence.com/pdf/LAB_12C.pdf
http://www.parts-express.com/eminenc...4-ohm--290-668

- Peerless XLS 10 / P830452
http://www.tymphany.com/files/XLS-P8...0Rev%201_1.pdf

- Peerless XXLS 12
(don't know which model)


what would be the best choice for music and HT sub ?
I have ICEpower500 module 500W/4Ohm
and Najda - WAF audio DSP

As I see Eminence recommend LAB12C in bas reflex that will go down to 30Hz (F3) for around 57L
http://www.eminence.com/pdf/LAB_12C_cab.pdf

And have see that people use XXLS in 50L closed.
I think that XLS10 would go into something like 35-40L. (XLS10 is the less cost one)

What build would you recommend for music and HT sub ? closed or bas reflex ?
would LAB12C be good as XXLS12 in closed application ?
or should LAB12C in bas reflex do for music and HT (people often write that thay mach more like closed boxes for sub's)

I can build something up to 60-70L (plan is to make it as coffee table, with down fire)

PS: I have small, anthony gallo due' for front loudspeakers (for HT use)...
http://www.anthonygallo.co.uk/pages/...eakers-due.php


and this is how my room looks like...it's not that big...I have one big space, as kitchen is connected with living room...there is no wall in betwin...


for some reason I don't see picture...so I paste link...



any advice
thanks
Josip

Last edited by yoke; 07-31-14 at 02:41 AM.
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post #2 of 35 Old 07-30-14, 08:26 AM
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Re: DIY sub Eminence LAB12C or XLS10 / XXLS12

Hi Josip,

Of those 3 choices, for your circumstances, I would suggest the XXLS 12, sealed. It will go lower than the Lab12, both being capable of at least keeping up with your Gallos.
Make sure to post pics of your build and good luck whichever you choose.

cheers

AJ

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post #3 of 35 Old 07-30-14, 08:35 AM Thread Starter
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Re: DIY sub Eminence LAB12C or XLS10 / XXLS12

Thanks AJ

what volume would you suggest for XXL12 ? around 50L ? maybe 60L ?

I try to simulate inside winisd but 'm not shore did I enter correct values (I have no XXLS12 in data base, so I input them by hand)...will try once more...tnx...

and will post my build
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post #4 of 35 Old 07-31-14, 12:25 AM
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Re: DIY sub Eminence LAB12C or XLS10 / XXLS12

Normally, one ideally wants the tuning to be extremely low for HT and a transient perfect 0.5 Qtc for music, so assuming these are your goals, then ~119 L sealed. If small size is more important, then a ~74.32 L_0.577 Qtc would be my choice.

GM

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post #5 of 35 Old 07-31-14, 02:37 AM Thread Starter
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Re: DIY sub Eminence LAB12C or XLS10 / XXLS12

Thanks JM

I have try to simulate XXLS in closed 50L and 65L
and LAB12C 50/60L just to get some idea about difference betwin those two drivers

- XXLS12_50L Qtc 0,757 / F3 - 44,4Hz / F6 - 33Hz

- XXLS12_65L Qtc 0,697 / F3 - 40,52Hz / F6 - 31Hz


- LAB12C_50L Qtc 0,64 / F3 - 45,8Hz / F6 - 37,4Hz

- LAB12C_60L Qtc 0,60 / F3 - 43Hz / F6 - 36,7 Hz


So the XXLS looks better

I will take a look about 75L as JM suggested.
The size does meter.

I have no experience with subwoofers.
Have made one 2.5/3 way loudspeakers and have struggle with bass response. I have SS 21W8555-01 in 42L with Qtc of 0.5 and have feeling that I'm mising bass...I could feel it....but could not hear it...
here is one picture how that come out...


have try Qtc of 0.7 (stuff some blocks inside to reduce volume) and could not notice some big difference...
have play a little with DSP to up lift lower frequencies.

But I believe that room and room placement plays a huge factor what we hear from loudspeakers.
So I will have to play some more.

I have read someplace, that my idea of building sub as coffee table is not a good idea ?
that, the ~midle of the room is the worst place to place subwoofer into room, as that way we will not take advantage of wall.

So first I will make some box just to see what to do and where to place sub.
my apartment is small as you can see, so sub placement and volume is important...I have to make it to blend into room.
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post #6 of 35 Old 07-31-14, 08:05 AM
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Re: DIY sub Eminence LAB12C or XLS10 / XXLS12

You’re welcome!

These are all fairly low Qt drivers, so not really designed to provide much bass output without corner and/or horn loading, so don’t expect a lot more just because the XXLS is a 12”.

Yes, the room dominates down low, so placement is critical to good bass response, ditto the listening position [Lp].

Nothing wrong with a coffee table sub, Altec was a pioneer in satellite/sub systems with the first being the LF1/LF2 coffee table [click images to enlarge]: http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/.../1982-home.htm

Yes, ‘box’ shaped rooms are ½ WL resonators, so the middle in all three planes is the 1st axial mode with a huge suck-out: http://www.mcsquared.com/modecalc.htm
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...es/opecol.html

From these we see that speaker, Lp placement ideally needs to be at the room’s odd harmonics and that multiple distributed subs can be used to average out the room’s response: http://www.harman.com/EN-US/OurCompa...s/multsubs.pdf

GM

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post #7 of 35 Old 07-31-14, 08:50 AM Thread Starter
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Re: DIY sub Eminence LAB12C or XLS10 / XXLS12

Thanks GM
so, I should do a loot of reading
but at the end it all comes down to experimenting

so, for start I will build some ~60L box, and start testing with different position...
if I get nice sound in front of soffa I will make it as coffee table
if not I will adopt it as something else...


the thing is that in Croatia is hard to find any drivers, I have to order somewhere from EU (Germany,UK...) and the prices is like 50% more expensive than in USA...and when I pay for shipping I could buy two drivers in USA for one in Croatia (EU)
lets say LAB12C is 174$ but in Croatia is 270$ used!
XXLS12 is 240$ and in EU is 350$ + 50$ shipping to Croatia (400$)...
So multiple subs won't do for me as I can't afford them

and I have to play safe...
what I buy I will have to stick with...
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post #8 of 35 Old 07-31-14, 10:26 AM
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There is a special run of LAB15 4ohm drivers on eBay for $210 US for two - sold direct from Eminence, and they have 100 or more left. They do well in small sealed enclosures. I bought two and should have them tomorrow.
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post #9 of 35 Old 07-31-14, 11:44 AM Thread Starter
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Re: DIY sub Eminence LAB12C or XLS10 / XXLS12

Hi Doug
can you point me to some project with LAB15 ?
(subwoofer for music and HT)

I belive it will cost me 210 for drivers, another 100 for shiping costs and then 25% custom on 310$(I pay custom for drivers and shiping) (so total of around 380$)
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post #10 of 35 Old 07-31-14, 12:30 PM
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The lab15 4ohm only has an Fs of 34.4 so it might not be the best choice for ht use. 56 liters sealed or 85 liters ported tuned to 30 would be where it would work well for music. I'm not sure of any completed projects with it other than the bfm t60, which is a giant pa use horn sub.
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