Flat Frequency "Loudness" @ Any Volume Level - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

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post #1 of 19 Old 12-10-14, 08:55 PM Thread Starter
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Flat Frequency "Loudness" @ Any Volume Level

Does anyone know a way to introduce a frequency equalizer in the line that changes the equalization curve based on volume.

We all know that we perceive low frequency much less at lower volumes than at high volumes. In 80s, there used to be a bass boost switch that tried to correct for that. But it was a one step boost and not that accurate. Now with digital equalization technology it should be possible to get a flat frequency "perception" or "loudness"
curve at any volume level.

I am hopeful that this is available from some manufacturer. But if it is not, would love to hear why you feel it is not needed.
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post #2 of 19 Old 12-11-14, 05:56 AM
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Re: Flat Frequency "Loudness" @ Any Volume Level

You are probably referring to the loudness button on older amps. Pressing it would boost the treble and bass by 2-4db. The theory being when playing at lower volumes that there is not enough power delivered to the speakers to reproduce the dynamics of sound inherent at those frequencies (bass drum - high hat). In my opinion its a limited view of what is pleasing in sound. There is an analogy in photography where warmer light makes people look better. Its completely unrealistic but its "pleasing to the eye". Electronic equalization, in my experience, does make my system sound "smoother" over a larger range of sound volumes. That being said I generally listen at two volume levels. One that is low enough that conversation can still take place 10 feet from the speakers. Another that sounds like the saxophone player is in the room with you. Smooth responses over a range of volumes is largely dependant on speaker response. The only way it could happen in realtime is if you have a mic in the listening area and a sophisticated speaker management system. Otherwise just EQ to the best of your abilities at your average listening volume and find the "sweetspots" when it comes to adjusting the volume to its highest level.
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post #3 of 19 Old 12-11-14, 08:00 AM
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Re: Flat Frequency "Loudness" @ Any Volume Level

Sounds like your looking for a receiver with Ausyssey Dynamic EQ its the replacement for the old loudness control. It changes as you raise the volume level.

Home theater:
Onkyo 805, Yamaha YDP2006EQ, Samson Servo 600 amp
3 EV Sentry 500 monitors across the front, 4 Mission 762i's Surrounds, SVS PB13U sub, Panasonic BDT220, Harmony 1100, Nintendo WiiU
Panasonic PT-AE8000 on a 120" 2,35:1 fixed screen

Living room system:
Sherwood/Newcastle R972, Mission 765's, SVS SBS02's, A/D/S MS3u sub, Yamaha YDG2030EQ
Yamaha KX-393 Tape deck, CDC 805 CD changer, Panasonic BD60, Sony turntable PS-T20
Panasonic TC-P50ST60, HD-PVR & WDTV Live, Harmony 900

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post #4 of 19 Old 12-11-14, 09:08 AM
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Re: Flat Frequency "Loudness" @ Any Volume Level

If your talking 2 channel stereo music that do not use reference volumes then Dynamic EQ can be messy. Constantly adjusting equalization based on input. Surround sound is mastered at reference levels so Dynamic EQ has a chance at adjusting for dynamics. Personally I would pick a couple of listening levels and EQ for them. Not so keen on letting robots control my EQ proactively.
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post #5 of 19 Old 12-11-14, 04:22 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Flat Frequency "Loudness" @ Any Volume Level

Istvan is probably right. Just hold on to several EQ curves at different volumes and then apply them. Now how do we create those curves. What should we assume the reference level the music was mastered at. Any guesses? And how to come with THOSE EQ curves more methodically.
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post #6 of 19 Old 12-11-14, 04:24 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Flat Frequency "Loudness" @ Any Volume Level

Istvan: it probably was not about pleasing to listen. But it had to do with our perception of sound at different frequencies and different volume levels. Agreed it was a crude way of doing it but the idea was not bad.
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post #7 of 19 Old 12-11-14, 04:33 PM
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Re: Flat Frequency "Loudness" @ Any Volume Level

I think Dynamic EQ could work really well if ..
1. there is a calibrated microphone in the listening area at all times
2. there is a forecasting system in software that "listens" to changes from the programmed material and compares that with what is actually sent out through the speakers in near realtime.

My understanding is Dynamic EQ today is a based on a baseline static measurement and not on active measurements and feedback.
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post #8 of 19 Old 12-19-14, 08:17 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Flat Frequency "Loudness" @ Any Volume Level

Till I figure out an automated system, I thought I would build three EQ one for low volume, one for medium and one for large. Medium volume will be flat. Does anone here know what should low and high volume EQ curves look like.
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post #9 of 19 Old 12-19-14, 08:22 AM
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Re: Flat Frequency "Loudness" @ Any Volume Level

I would never be concerned about how an EQ curve "looks" its far more important as to how it sounds. That would totally be dependent on your speakers and the room they are in as to what would be ideal.

Home theater:
Onkyo 805, Yamaha YDP2006EQ, Samson Servo 600 amp
3 EV Sentry 500 monitors across the front, 4 Mission 762i's Surrounds, SVS PB13U sub, Panasonic BDT220, Harmony 1100, Nintendo WiiU
Panasonic PT-AE8000 on a 120" 2,35:1 fixed screen

Living room system:
Sherwood/Newcastle R972, Mission 765's, SVS SBS02's, A/D/S MS3u sub, Yamaha YDG2030EQ
Yamaha KX-393 Tape deck, CDC 805 CD changer, Panasonic BD60, Sony turntable PS-T20
Panasonic TC-P50ST60, HD-PVR & WDTV Live, Harmony 900

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post #10 of 19 Old 12-25-14, 10:33 AM
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Re: Flat Frequency "Loudness" @ Any Volume Level

Quote:
shkumar4963 wrote: View Post
... Just hold on to several EQ curves at different volumes and then apply them. Now how do we create those curves... And how to come with THOSE EQ curves more methodically.
Use a test disk that has test tones at multiple frequencies, all of the frequencies are recorded at the same level. Adjust the frequency equalizer until the output of all the frequencies are equal according to a SPL meter.
If REW only tests at one output level, this is something they should look into changing, being able to test at multiple output levels for low, medium and high volumes.

I've never experienced well balanced sound using Audyssey Dynamic EQ.

Last edited by gdstupak; 12-25-14 at 10:42 AM.
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