Alternative to BFD, FBQ, DEQ, Anti-Mode, SMS-1 - Page 2 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

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post #11 of 28 Old 10-12-08, 11:33 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Alternative to BFD, FBQ, DEQ, Anti-Mode, SMS-1

Here are some better pictures for everyone....
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Alternative to BFD, FBQ, DEQ, Anti-Mode, SMS-1-sabine-grq-3102s-01.jpg  

Alternative to BFD, FBQ, DEQ, Anti-Mode, SMS-1-sabine-grq-3102s-02.jpg  

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post #12 of 28 Old 10-13-08, 09:59 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Alternative to BFD, FBQ, DEQ, Anti-Mode, SMS-1

Well, got to do some initial testing of the Sabine this morning. To start with, the testing would have been easier if I had a laptop that I could use with the Sabine. I had to keep disconnecting it and moving it to my office area where my desk top (which I use to do REW testing) is located. That got annoying real quick. Those of you with a lap top can do REW and adjustments to the Sabine at the same time!

On to the results........

The first thing I noticed was the missing input level selection on the back like the Behringer. There is only a "ground" versus "lift" selection to help with ground loop hum. Because of this, I went ahead and used a cheater plug right away. I was able to use the same connections for my inputs and outputs as the Behringer. This was nice because I did not need to buy additional cables. After connecting and powering everything back on..... the Sabine was dead quiet. I did not try the unit without the cheater plug though. I was just happy with this result.

The second thing I noticed was the output level was much lower than the Behringer. After taking a couple of measurements I tried one adjustment and seemed to be able to get to the same level as the Behringer.

The final observation I will mention is that brucek and Wayne are correct. I noticed the first filters I loaded did not respond like the Behringer. That's what caused me to do a few disconnects and tweaks. I believe a lap top will greatly reduce the time and headaches here. All-in-all it is a great unit and another option for those who are looking for more control and NO BLINKING LIGHTS. Below are some comparison graphs of my results.

I could have spent more time with this unit, but thought that within 1.5 hours to get this close was worth reporting. I am not sure that I will keep this unit (due to the lap top connection), but I may revisit it to do more testing on rear channel speakers.



1st Graph - No filters
2nd Graph - Behringer Filters
3rd Graph - Sabine Filters
4th Graph - Comparison/Overlay of Results
Attached Thumbnails
Alternative to BFD, FBQ, DEQ, Anti-Mode, SMS-1-subs-no-filters.jpg  

Alternative to BFD, FBQ, DEQ, Anti-Mode, SMS-1-subs-behringer-filters.jpg  

Alternative to BFD, FBQ, DEQ, Anti-Mode, SMS-1-subs-sabine-filters.jpg  

Alternative to BFD, FBQ, DEQ, Anti-Mode, SMS-1-subs-comparison.jpg  

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post #13 of 28 Old 10-13-08, 10:46 AM
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Re: Alternative to BFD, FBQ, DEQ, Anti-Mode, SMS-1

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There is only a "ground" versus "lift" selection to help with ground loop hum. Because of this, I went ahead and used a cheater plug right away.
Hopefully you realize that a ground lift circuit and a cheater plug are quite different. The cheater is unsafe and the ground lift is completely safe.

Quote:
NO BLINKING LIGHTS
The blinking of a BFD led indicates the filter mode is in feedback destroy. These filters are suppose to be set to 'OF' mode to stop the blinking and shut the feedback mode off.

Did you try using the shelf filters at all?

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post #14 of 28 Old 10-13-08, 10:53 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Alternative to BFD, FBQ, DEQ, Anti-Mode, SMS-1

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Hopefully you realize that a ground lift circuit and a cheater plug are quite different. The cheater is unsafe and the ground lift is completely safe.


The blinking of a BFD led indicates the filter mode is in feedback destroy. These filters are suppose to be set to 'OF' mode to stop the blinking and shut the feedback mode off.

Did you try using the shelf filters at all?

brucek
Was not sure about the lift circuit.

When I say blinking, I meant from the level indicator lights.

No I did not. It only has high and low pass filters. I was just trying to do a direct comparison to the Behringer.
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post #15 of 28 Old 10-13-08, 11:30 AM
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Re: Alternative to BFD, FBQ, DEQ, Anti-Mode, SMS-1


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The first thing I noticed was the missing input level selection on the back like the Behringer.
Actually, most pro-audio equalizers don't have input level switches. For my own edification I posted a question about this on the ProSoundWeb recently, and the replies I got back indicated that they are only present on lower-end products.

Quote:
There is only a "ground" versus "lift" selection to help with ground loop hum. Because of this, I went ahead and used a cheater plug right away.
What brucek said - the ground lift is different from a cheaper plug. The ground lift switch opens the ground for the balanced audio signal (which has continuity with the chassis and therefore the A/C ground). The signal ground is pin 1 on an XLR and the sleeve connection on a 1/4" TRS plug.

Lifting ground leaves you with XLR pins 2 and 3, and TR for TRS, which is the preferred method for connecting unbalanced to balanced equipment when ground loops are a problem.

Regards,
Wayne



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post #16 of 28 Old 10-13-08, 11:37 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Alternative to BFD, FBQ, DEQ, Anti-Mode, SMS-1

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Wayne A. Pflughaupt wrote: View Post
What brucek said - the ground lift is different from a cheaper plug. The ground lift switch opens the ground for the balanced audio signal (which has continuity with the chassis and therefore the A/C ground). The signal ground is pin 1 on an XLR and the sleeve connection on a 1/4" TRS plug.

Lifting ground leaves you with XLR pins 2 and 3, and TR for TRS, which is the preferred method for connecting unbalanced to balanced equipment when ground loops are a problem.
Thanks Wayne. Any more thoughts on the results?

Next time I hook it up, I will try the lift circuit and no cheater plug.
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post #17 of 28 Old 10-13-08, 12:37 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Alternative to BFD, FBQ, DEQ, Anti-Mode, SMS-1

Here are some comparison pictures of the Sabine to a Yamaha YDP2006. I would say the Behringer DSP1124P is the same size as the Sabine, but the Sabine weights about twice as much. The Yamaha weights a little more than the Sabine.
Attached Thumbnails
Alternative to BFD, FBQ, DEQ, Anti-Mode, SMS-1-ydp-vs-sabine.jpg  

Alternative to BFD, FBQ, DEQ, Anti-Mode, SMS-1-ydp-vs-sabine-02.jpg  

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post #18 of 28 Old 10-13-08, 12:44 PM
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Re: Alternative to BFD, FBQ, DEQ, Anti-Mode, SMS-1


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Thanks Wayne. Any more thoughts on the results?
Yeah, I intended to comment on that... Obviously the Sabine curve doesn't look quite as good as the BFD, but naturally that's just a matter of spending a bit more time running back and forth between the computer and the system.

Regarding not being able to directly plug in REW's recommended filters to the Sabine, I found it was much easier to simply concentrate on a single peak or depression at a time, taking a sweep after each filter adjustment until I got it the way I wanted (back before REW had RTA). Then moved on to the next problem area and repeat.

Quote:
Next time I hook it up, I will try the lift circuit and no cheater plug.
I should talk, I still have the cheaper plug on my Yamaha. When I get around to making the cables that use pins 2 &3, maybe I'll be able to practice what I preach...

Regards,
Wayne



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post #19 of 28 Old 10-13-08, 03:29 PM
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Re: Alternative to BFD, FBQ, DEQ, Anti-Mode, SMS-1

Speaking about cheater plugs.

I am currently using one on the BFD until I sort out mu hum problem. I ordered the DCI product which made matters worse.

Working with Dave at DCI we determined it is a SAT receiver issue and come to find out DirectTV never grounded the mast or installed grounding blocks for the cables, that has been remidied this morning.

Anyway, Dave sent me this article. This weekend I tried the cable modiciation describe on the BFD hum forum with no difference but when I tried the one Dave sent it cust the hum in half. When I put the DCI at the sub as recommended the hum was back being louder.

Tonight I will test again with a properly grounded SAT.
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post #20 of 28 Old 10-14-08, 11:03 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Alternative to BFD, FBQ, DEQ, Anti-Mode, SMS-1

Just removed the BFD from my set-up. Here is picture comparing the Sabine and BFD. I will probably be putting these two up for sale here shortly.

Enjoy.
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