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post #21 of 57 Old 04-09-07, 04:22 AM
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Re: Fabric Screens

I'm on holidays at the moment so I'll be taking a trip down to Clark Rubber in the morning Should be interesting, I'll let you know how it goes.

cheers


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post #22 of 57 Old 04-10-07, 12:17 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Fabric Screens

I'm doing a test shot for the guy that sells the lenses, so I thought I'd post it here as well...Just to give you a taste...

This is a 9' wide image on the new screen, from a 480p projector, on economy mode..straight off the camera..
The photo was taken 13' back from the screen...

[IMG][/IMG]
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post #23 of 57 Old 04-10-07, 07:55 AM
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Re: Fabric Screens

Hi,

I'm on my third DIY screen as you and a bunch of the other people here are. The material looks like a great find, please keep the info coming.... Thanks

I do have some flags that look similar...
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post #24 of 57 Old 04-10-07, 11:19 AM
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Re: Fabric Screens

Ok, I spent most of the afternoon testing. A couple of things I found.

1. The material is a very thin gauge PVC in comparison to the Dazian material

2. The material has a sheen to it, which is why it has a higher reflectivity(very similar to other materials I've tested)

3. The material becomes flaccid under warmer conditions(caused problems for me)

4. The material also becomes flaccid and stretches when water is added, and once added causes a stain that changes the sheen in that area after it dries(making spot cleaning difficult). None of this happens to the Dazian material, and I've spot cleaned it on numerous occasions.

Now, whites are whiter, but I found full black slightly lighter with direct comparisons using test patterns and under normal use.

I may do some more testing on the color shifting because projected colors change with wrinkles in the material(from memory this was not noticeable with the Dazian material under the same conditions, I may retest that). I think this is a side effect of the slight sheen, but should not be noticeable with the material properly stretched.

This next problem I had may not be an issue for those who stretch the material over a frame. I use a trampoline method as seen below(this photo was taken awhile ago with the Dazian material).

I fitted the new material to the frame, it was pulled taught and wrinkle free by the springs, so far looks good. My problem came when I tried to spot clean a couple of marks, first thing was the area that I cleaned became flaccid and wrinkled while still being taught all around the spot, so I did another large area for testing, same thing. Ok, so I waited for it to dry, it seemed to stiffen up but not as much as before and it looked different to the rest of the screen(it looked like the sheen was different in those areas). Now I wanted to try some temperature tests, I turned on the heater to warm up the room(inside temp was 23 and rose to about 29), the material became flaccid and the springs pulled almost fully closed and caused wrinkles all around the screen. I turned on the aircon on and cooled the room back down to 23 but the material didn't pull back into shape and the wrinkles remained. It was getting late so I put the Dazian material back in the frame.

As I said before this may not be an issue for those who stretch the material over a frame but the spot cleaning issue could.

Anyway this was how my afternoon panned out. I may have another play tomorrow

cheers


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post #25 of 57 Old 04-10-07, 07:52 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Fabric Screens

Quote:
MACCA350 wrote: View Post
1. The material is a very thin gauge PVC in comparison to the Dazian material:
Actually, according to Clark Rubber it's supposed to be rubber backed nylon material..
Quote:
MACCA350 wrote: View Post
4. The material also becomes flaccid and stretches when water is added, and once added causes a stain that changes the sheen in that area after it dries(making spot cleaning difficult). None of this happens to the Dazian material, and I've spot cleaned it on numerous occasions.
This material should be water-proof, since it is used for water-proof jackets, tents and flags..

Quote:
MACCA350 wrote: View Post
Now, whites are whiter, but I found full black slightly lighter with direct comparisons using test patterns and under normal use..
I found the blacks also to be very strong compared to my previous screen..Maybe the Dazian does perform better with blacks..

Quote:
MACCA350 wrote: View Post
This next problem I had may not be an issue for those who stretch the material over a frame. I use a trampoline method as seen below(this photo was taken awhile ago with the Dazian material).

I fitted the new material to the frame, it was pulled taught and wrinkle free by the springs, so far looks good. My problem came when I tried to spot clean a couple of marks, first thing was the area that I cleaned became flaccid and wrinkled while still being taught all around the spot, so I did another large area for testing, same thing. Ok, so I waited for it to dry, it seemed to stiffen up but not as much as before and it looked different to the rest of the screen(it looked like the sheen was different in those areas). Now I wanted to try some temperature tests, I turned on the heater to warm up the room(inside temp was 23 and rose to about 29), the material became flaccid and the springs pulled almost fully closed and caused wrinkles all around the screen. I turned on the aircon on and cooled the room back down to 23 but the material didn't pull back into shape and the wrinkles remained. It was getting late so I put the Dazian material back in the frame...
I gather that you had the material on your frame in place of the Dazian..
This material requires a backing of some sort, because of it's translucency..I've backed it with a sheet of white MDF..
This also might explain why you didn't get the strong blacks that I'm seeing..
If you just drape the material in front of your existing screen, this will give it a backing and give a better comparison..

I'd be interested to see some side by side screen shots..
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post #26 of 57 Old 04-10-07, 09:50 PM
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Re: Fabric Screens

Prof, I bought some of this type of material from Spotlight about 2 years ago and have used it for my Sony CRT projector. I still have yet to build a fixed screen for it, but in the comparison shots
you have taken it really does perform better than the others.

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The first shot is taken with the flash...The second is taken without...and the third shot has been taken from 6" away in sunlight..There is almost no surface texture.





post #27 of 57 Old 04-10-07, 11:05 PM
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Re: Fabric Screens

Quote:
Prof. wrote: View Post
Actually, according to Clark Rubber it's supposed to be rubber backed nylon material..
Yes thats what the sticker said. I tore an offcut and yes it is a fabric with a rubberized backing.

Quote:
This material should be water-proof, since it is used for water-proof jackets, tents and flags..
It's waterproof but the water changes the stiffness of the material, its hard to explain, try it with an offcut.


Quote:
I found the blacks also to be very strong compared to my previous screen..Maybe the Dazian does perform better with blacks..
Possibly

Quote:
I gather that you had the material on your frame in place of the Dazian..
This material requires a backing of some sort, because of it's translucency..I've backed it with a sheet of white MDF..
This also might explain why you didn't get the strong blacks that I'm seeing..
If you just drape the material in front of your existing screen, this will give it a backing and give a better comparison..
All my testing was done with a .5m strip of the material draped over my existing Dazien screen for comparisons. After all this I replace the Dazian screen with this material but thats as far as I got due to the issues I stated earlier. So I haven't yet tested it on it's own in the frame.

I have an old frame in the shed that has BOC stretched over a wooden frame, so I may stretch this material over the BOC and try the old screen out(since the 'trampoline' screen failed).

Quote:
I'd be interested to see some side by side screen shots.
I'll see what I can do.

cheers


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post #28 of 57 Old 04-25-07, 09:07 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Fabric Screens

Quote:
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It's waterproof but the water changes the stiffness of the material, its hard to explain, try it with an offcut.
Well you were right..We've just had our first rains in months and the air is heavy with moisture..The material has sagged with ripples everywhere..
It may straighten out again when the moisture dissipates, but I can't live with it doing that every time it rains.

So it's back to the drawing board again..I think I'll have to look for a solid substrate material that I can use as is, or go to a painted screen..

It's a great disappointment because the image quality on the Nulon was excellent..
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post #29 of 57 Old 04-26-07, 07:05 AM
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Re: Fabric Screens

Quote:
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Well you were right..We've just had our first rains in months and the air is heavy with moisture..The material has sagged with ripples everywhere..
It may straighten out again when the moisture dissipates, but I can't live with it doing that every time it rains.

So it's back to the drawing board again..I think I'll have to look for a solid substrate material that I can use as is, or go to a painted screen..

It's a great disappointment because the image quality on the Nulon was excellent..
Yes, its a shame.

Try some solid PVC based materials. I tried many different materials including fabrics(some satin's were rather good for gain) and tarpaulin's of various kinds. The problem I had with the tarpaulin's was consistency in the finish, I'd try a sample that looked perfect but when I got a full size piece there were imperfections that I couldn't live with. I tried to source a manufacture of the kinds of PVC material like the Dazian screen but kept hitting dead ends, these screen companies must have exclusivity's with manufactures if they outsource In the end I just bit the bullet and ordered the material(at the time it was half the price it is now)

Good luck, and keep us posted.
cheers


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post #30 of 57 Old 04-26-07, 12:00 PM
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Re: Fabric Screens

Quote:
Prof. wrote: View Post
Well you were right..We've just had our first rains in months and the air is heavy with moisture..The material has sagged with ripples everywhere..
It may straighten out again when the moisture dissipates, but I can't live with it doing that every time it rains.

So it's back to the drawing board again..I think I'll have to look for a solid substrate material that I can use as is, or go to a painted screen..

It's a great disappointment because the image quality on the Nulon was excellent..
Prof sorry to hear that... this looked very nice and I'd think still is for people that don't have lots of moisture. Was it humidity in the air that caused it? Would a dehumidifier help out some and maybe prevent it from happening again?
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