My GIK Pillar Trap Review - Page 6 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

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post #51 of 128 Old 02-18-09, 04:49 AM
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Re: My GIK Pillar Trap Review

That is what I thought by just eyeballing the two waterfalls. Bet that is enough difference to be audible.
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post #52 of 128 Old 02-18-09, 10:51 AM Thread Starter
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Re: My GIK Pillar Trap Review

Yes they help quite alot. I was very impressed with listening to the entire Transformers movie while watching speakers move. I ordered a case of 6 2" OC 705 and am buying a Rane SSE-35 Home Theater Equalizer. I was not pleased with sound from the front wall with my compressed insulation, and the back of the rooms upper corners sounded like the bass was lacking somewhat, so I want to put the rest of my insulation back there again. I hope that my screen will act similar to having a layer of FSK. I may end up leaving the back of my room without absorption and get some dipole surrounds. The back row is not real concerned about having more treatments, and they are already happy with the improvements thus far and think it is fine how it is. I will listen carefully for slap echos off the back wall again, but I didn't hear it last I checked, and it may have had something to do with how I have changed the riser more recently.
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post #53 of 128 Old 02-18-09, 12:07 PM
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Re: My GIK Pillar Trap Review

My other two Monsters shipped today, so I should have them tomorrow afternoon (just one night to here from Atlanta). I will make a few measurements this weekend and post them. As stated earlier, I am limited as to where they will fit. Try putting a R30 batt behind the Monsters - Bryan said that might help in the lower freqs.

Not sure what you mean about the screen acting as FSK. Is it vinyl on a frame? If so, it should be reflective to mids/highs and not do much below that.
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post #54 of 128 Old 02-18-09, 03:13 PM Thread Starter
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Re: My GIK Pillar Trap Review

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hjones4841 wrote: View Post
My other two Monsters shipped today, so I should have them tomorrow afternoon (just one night to here from Atlanta). I will make a few measurements this weekend and post them. As stated earlier, I am limited as to where they will fit. Try putting a R30 batt behind the Monsters - Bryan said that might help in the lower freqs.

Not sure what you mean about the screen acting as FSK. Is it vinyl on a frame? If so, it should be reflective to mids/highs and not do much below that.
Good idea. I have more than enough for that area on my stage, and I don't like it compressed, so I will put that behind the Monsters. I actually forgot to try that I was so busy.

The screen is a High Power Da-Lite screen that has a vinyl back on it. I think that I remember reading that FSK was not needed with a screen in front of it, but I don't recall the difference between a vinyl screen and FSK. I'm just hoping it reflects enough back above ear level.

I have been busy today trying to get things setup. It seems easier to hear higher q resonances after adding the Monsters. I'm trying a couple layers of wood (over 3") added to the face of my Helmholtz Resonators and stacking the concrete tiles on the top of it. It sounds like it is helping in the back of the room at least. I'm also going to try various things above the first reflection points to see if I can improve anything with that, and make them more decorative. That's something I have not tried yet so I will give it a try. I hope to have things setup with what I have by the end of the night.

Do you have planned where you are putting the next Monster traps when those arrive?
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post #55 of 128 Old 02-18-09, 05:27 PM
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Re: My GIK Pillar Trap Review

I will probably start with them in the center rear wall, in front of a brick fireplace on the GIK stands. That is where Bryan initially recommended them for absorption from that wall to the center recliner. They worked well there, but are the ones I mounted horizontally in the rear corners. I can slide them around easily to find the 1/8th wavelength for the 27Hz peak that I have. Don't know what the point of diminishing returns is for my room; I will have 5 Monsters along that 12.5ft wall, counting the ceiling corners and the ceiling center, plus the two up front in the corners.

(Hey, GIK, how's about a quantity discount for thewire and me)

I sent Glenn an e-mail about a simple mod to the GIK stands. Due to moving the first traps around, the wood blocks that fasten the stands to the traps were coming loose. They are held in place with two short nails. I drilled a small pilot hole between the brads and put in a 1" drywall screw. Sure tightened them up. I had thought about using wood glue, but was out of it. Glenn replied that they will look at using that mod.
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post #56 of 128 Old 02-18-09, 06:04 PM
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Re: My GIK Pillar Trap Review

thewire: I meant to ask you what brand/color of black paint worked best for you? Folks at AVSforums like Behr Mouse Ears, but say that it badly shows marks. I used a Glidden flat with a Behr color that Home Depot mixed for me. Color is fine, but has a slight sheen where light from the screen hits it.

Before I blacked out the whole ceiling, I covered two rows of tiles closest to the screen with Parts Express black grill cloth - looked great with no reflection or sheen, but too expensive to do the whole room.
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post #57 of 128 Old 02-18-09, 06:39 PM Thread Starter
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Re: My GIK Pillar Trap Review

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hjones4841 wrote: View Post
I will probably start with them in the center rear wall, in front of a brick fireplace on the GIK stands. That is where Bryan initially recommended them for absorption from that wall to the center recliner. They worked well there, but are the ones I mounted horizontally in the rear corners. I can slide them around easily to find the 1/8th wavelength for the 27Hz peak that I have. Don't know what the point of diminishing returns is for my room; I will have 5 Monsters along that 12.5ft wall, counting the ceiling corners and the ceiling center, plus the two up front in the corners.

(Hey, GIK, how's about a quantity discount for thewire and me)

I sent Glenn an e-mail about a simple mod to the GIK stands. Due to moving the first traps around, the wood blocks that fasten the stands to the traps were coming loose. They are held in place with two short nails. I drilled a small pilot hole between the brads and put in a 1" drywall screw. Sure tightened them up. I had thought about using wood glue, but was out of it. Glenn replied that they will look at using that mod.
There is such thing as to much and there is also to little. The tonal balance and decay is important but there is a an amount that you will have to decide what sounds right. There are recommendations for how many sabins to absorb and also how it placed in the room. Many acousticians have a set of guidelines for how much to use and in what ways. You will want to find what works. It really takes more than one person to complete a room. It is a collabrative effort and I think that Bryan or others will tell you if you have overdone something and I read him telling someone when something is too much.

Some goals of home theater are:
  • Clear dialog
  • Precise sound localization
  • Spacious surround
  • Smooth sound movement
  • Even tonal balance
  • Full dynamics
  • Transparency
  • Every seat a good seat
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post #58 of 128 Old 02-19-09, 04:06 AM
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Re: My GIK Pillar Trap Review

Interesting point that you made about dialog. I would have never believed that bass traps could increase clarity in the center channel, but that is what happened. I originally thought that I had overdone it in mid/high absorption but after listening for a while I think it is just fine.

Dynamics in my system have never been a problem. The speakers are extremely efficient (104db/1watt/1meter) so getting very loud is easy, although at times I wish I had a second sub. I played an old CD of organ music Sunday at high volume and could tell the Velodyne was limiting itself. 99% of the other times it is enough, tho.

The Monsters may have been delayed by Fedex - multiple severe weather events last night between here and Atlanta, including tornadoes. News said that I-20 was shut down both directions about 60 miles east of here; never heard why.
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post #59 of 128 Old 02-19-09, 04:14 AM Thread Starter
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Re: My GIK Pillar Trap Review

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hjones4841 wrote: View Post
thewire: I meant to ask you what brand/color of black paint worked best for you? Folks at AVSforums like Behr Mouse Ears, but say that it badly shows marks. I used a Glidden flat with a Behr color that Home Depot mixed for me. Color is fine, but has a slight sheen where light from the screen hits it.

Before I blacked out the whole ceiling, I covered two rows of tiles closest to the screen with Parts Express black grill cloth - looked great with no reflection or sheen, but too expensive to do the whole room.
I switched to Disney "Lamp Black" because the Home Depot in our area said they did not carry it anymore. I had my previous can for them to match which had been the Behr Mouse Ears. I have to keep the paint on hand to touch up the walls if they get dirty or scratched. I went to a paint store and they said they didn't carry black so I looked at Wal-Mart and Lowes, then Home Depot where I found the Disney Mouse ears. I thought it was best so I went with that. I was not bias because I had not researched it. I figured nobody used black but I had forgotten about ceilings and screen walls then. I had not visited the forums for a few years when we had the HT first built. I had a few weeks to get it done with the framing, electrical, walls, HVAC, and so on with help from the construction crew.

I used a grey primer because the walls sucked up the black very quickly and because they were textured it made it more difficult. I used a black light to find places that I missed. I had to apply three coats of the Mouse Ears after the primer. The extra coat was after someone decided to sweep the room.

It's not reflective much, and not enough to cause a distraction in my room. It sucks up alot of light so I had to get some track lighting in the back of the room. That worked out really well because I can aim it down and watch a movie without the room getting fully lit up, ruining the image, or having to bring a lamp into the room to take photos. The photos really make the room 10X more a mess than it is. I seldom take as much time to clean between projects as I used to.


I removed the face of my Helmholtz Resonators for which I will cover in a fabric frame. I reinforced the left and right walls with very heavy wood on the left wall and some 1 3/4" plywood on the right wall behind the panels. I moved the insulation off my stage to the rear corners inside the now...traps. They are about 1/4 full of insulation each. The insulation behind the Monster Traps helps also for the very low ringing, but the mains response is now very sensitive to the back of the room after reinforcing the walls behind the panels and there isn't enough insulation to fix the dip at around 168 Hz. It's not as bad as it was to start with. The response went up 5dB. I added 3 or filters but I forget. I will get back to that later, but the 40Hz dip is better which I am proud to have accomplished today. This is the one that REW recommended.





I could not buy the Rane eq. During the last 3 hours people started bidding and the price doubled so I woln't be getting that soon. The person selling has been selling many of them lately so I will keep an eye open. I will probobly get something else besides an eq. It would be nice to eq the center channel.
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post #60 of 128 Old 02-19-09, 05:52 AM
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Re: My GIK Pillar Trap Review

A comment on the dialog...

That actually is one of the most commone 'symptoms' of a room that has too little bottom end control. It's a lack of clarity in the center. It's also that 'can't hear the dialog so we turn it up - but then the effects are too loud so we turn it down' syndrome.

What's happening is that the bass decay time is out of control and the ringing is masking the dialog. People don't realize that male voice can easily go below 200Hz.

Bryan

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