When is room treatment needed - Page 5 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #41 of 189 Old 01-02-11, 09:58 AM
HTS Senior Moderator
 
bpape's Avatar
Bryan Pape
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Wildwood, MO (St. Loui
Posts: 5,288
Send a message via AIM to bpape Send a message via Skype™ to bpape
Re: When is room treatment needed

You can move it around to set the bottom and the top frequency separately from changing linear to log.

FR isn't that bad other than a wide hole between 100 and 150Hz. Are the mains cut off or running concurrently and what is the xover set to? Are you running both the xover in the processor and the sub or just one? (Should be just one)

Also, FR appears to have some smoothing turned on. I would turn that off.

For now, just concentrate FR and waterfalls from say 20-300Hz.


Bryan

I am serious... and don't call me Shirley.

Bryan Pape
Lead Acoustician/Owner
Sensible Sound Solutions
bpape is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #42 of 189 Old 01-02-11, 01:05 PM Thread Starter
Senior Shackster
 
marty1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: United Kingdom dagenham
Posts: 347
Re: When is room treatment needed

Quote:
bpape wrote: View Post
You can move it around to set the bottom and the top frequency separately from changing linear to log.

FR isn't that bad other than a wide hole between 100 and 150Hz. Are the mains cut off or running concurrently and what is the xover set to? Are you running both the xover in the processor and the sub or just one? (Should be just one)

Also, FR appears to have some smoothing turned on. I would turn that off.

For now, just concentrate FR and waterfalls from say 20-300Hz.


Bryan
The mains are set to small, xo at 80hz, sub xo is fully open.

The smoothing can either be the mcaac on my pioneer amp, which to my untrained ears sounds better on than off, but it could be a mental thing, or I do have the parametric equaliser on the svs sub tuned to tame a large peak around 30hz? Or do you mean on rew there is smoothing to be turned off?

I have been trying to improve the sound from my bipole rears, finding the best position for them and the best seating position all round, so after trial and error the sound from the bipoles sound much better when I am seated closer to them, this means instead of 5 feet from the rear wall I am now 2 feet from it, I have measured the subs response in this position and I have it looking ok, is this an ok response and is 2 feet too close? I have tried the dipoles in various positions but this gives the best rear soundstage strangely enough, especially when something travels from left to right you really get a wide soundstage and clearly hear the movement from 1 side of the room to the other.

(This is mainly for sub response and this is with mcaac eq off, mains and sub xo on amp 80hz)

When is room treatment needed-finished.jpg

Thanks again Bryan

Regards
Marty
marty1 is offline  
post #43 of 189 Old 01-03-11, 01:40 PM
HTS Senior Moderator
 
bpape's Avatar
Bryan Pape
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Wildwood, MO (St. Loui
Posts: 5,288
Send a message via AIM to bpape Send a message via Skype™ to bpape
Re: When is room treatment needed

2 feet would normally be too close. You're sitting in a lot of bass buildup and severely limiting your surround experience.

Just remember than any EQ done at one seating position would need to be redone at any new position. Things will change drastically.

I was referring to smoothing in REW.

Bryan

I am serious... and don't call me Shirley.

Bryan Pape
Lead Acoustician/Owner
Sensible Sound Solutions
bpape is offline  
 
post #44 of 189 Old 01-03-11, 03:12 PM Thread Starter
Senior Shackster
 
marty1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: United Kingdom dagenham
Posts: 347
Re: When is room treatment needed

Quote:
bpape wrote: View Post
2 feet would normally be too close. You're sitting in a lot of bass buildup and severely limiting your surround experience.

Just remember than any EQ done at one seating position would need to be redone at any new position. Things will change drastically.

I was referring to smoothing in REW.

Bryan
I was always told to use 1/3 octave smoothing.

What is an ideal minimum distance to be from a rear wall? Are the results showing an increase in bass by moving closer?

The problem like I said was I seem to loose the details in the rear soundstage further out into the room, is there a reason for that?

Thanks
Marty
marty1 is offline  
post #45 of 189 Old 01-03-11, 04:13 PM
HTS Senior Moderator
 
bpape's Avatar
Bryan Pape
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Wildwood, MO (St. Loui
Posts: 5,288
Send a message via AIM to bpape Send a message via Skype™ to bpape
Re: When is room treatment needed

1/3 octave obscures detail. I would recommend turning it off for this exercise.

Ideal seating distance is a function of room length.

I can't say what's happening when you move without having both measurements done with no smoothing and no EQ applied

If you're losing detail by moving to farther away from the wall, the surrounds are not likely in the right place - or you're expecting to hear too much from them.

Bryan

I am serious... and don't call me Shirley.

Bryan Pape
Lead Acoustician/Owner
Sensible Sound Solutions
bpape is offline  
post #46 of 189 Old 01-03-11, 05:03 PM Thread Starter
Senior Shackster
 
marty1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: United Kingdom dagenham
Posts: 347
Re: When is room treatment needed

Quote:
bpape wrote: View Post
1/3 octave obscures detail. I would recommend turning it off for this exercise.

Ideal seating distance is a function of room length.

I can't say what's happening when you move without having both measurements done with no smoothing and no EQ applied

If you're losing detail by moving to farther away from the wall, the surrounds are not likely in the right place - or you're expecting to hear too much from them.

Bryan
My room length is 18 feet?

In regards to the surrounds I sat in the 5 feet from rear wall position and moved the speakers around on ladders testing material, the rear wall about 1 and a half feet from the corners sounded best, then I was trying seating position and i found that closer to them there is details I can hear which I cannot from the 5 feet position. The main thing I noticed is on the thx scene on indy 4 bluray, when the flowers start fluttering around the rear speakers the finally shift across the rear soundstage from left to right, when I sit in the 5 feet forward position you cant really tell what direction the fluttering goes?


This is the results without amps eq and without smoothing, the only thing that was applied was I adjusted the phase to raise a large dip around 50-60hz and the svs subs parametric equaliser to iron out a large peak around 35hz.

2 feet from wall
When is room treatment needed-2-feet-wall.jpg

5 feet from wall
When is room treatment needed-5-feet-wall.jpg

Thanks
Marty
marty1 is offline  
post #47 of 189 Old 01-03-11, 05:43 PM
HTS Senior Moderator
 
bpape's Avatar
Bryan Pape
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Wildwood, MO (St. Loui
Posts: 5,288
Send a message via AIM to bpape Send a message via Skype™ to bpape
Re: When is room treatment needed

Looks to me like 5' away is much smoother response without the null and peak.

As for the surround details, some of that is purely a function of excessive decay time and the bottom end not being tight that's masking the details. Try an experiment and move the surrounds on ladders within a couple feet of you when you're 5' from the wall and see what you think. You can also try 5' with them at the rear wall and just turn off the sub to avoid the boom and excessive ringing in the bass - at least from 80hz down.

Bryan

I am serious... and don't call me Shirley.

Bryan Pape
Lead Acoustician/Owner
Sensible Sound Solutions
bpape is offline  
post #48 of 189 Old 01-03-11, 05:57 PM Thread Starter
Senior Shackster
 
marty1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: United Kingdom dagenham
Posts: 347
Re: When is room treatment needed

Quote:
bpape wrote: View Post
Looks to me like 5' away is much smoother response without the null and peak.

As for the surround details, some of that is purely a function of excessive decay time and the bottom end not being tight that's masking the details. Try an experiment and move the surrounds on ladders within a couple feet of you when you're 5' from the wall and see what you think. You can also try 5' with them at the rear wall and just turn off the sub to avoid the boom and excessive ringing in the bass - at least from 80hz down.

Bryan
Thanks Bryan I shall try that tomorrow as it is bed time over here now!

Are you able to suggest an ideal distance from rear wall to seating position in a room 18ft 6inch in length?
marty1 is offline  
post #49 of 189 Old 01-04-11, 07:29 AM
HTS Senior Moderator
 
bpape's Avatar
Bryan Pape
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Wildwood, MO (St. Loui
Posts: 5,288
Send a message via AIM to bpape Send a message via Skype™ to bpape
Re: When is room treatment needed

In theory, you'd want to be somewhere between 6' and 7' from rear wall to seated ear position. That's theoretical but it usually falls somewhere in that range.

Bryan

I am serious... and don't call me Shirley.

Bryan Pape
Lead Acoustician/Owner
Sensible Sound Solutions
bpape is offline  
post #50 of 189 Old 01-04-11, 01:20 PM Thread Starter
Senior Shackster
 
marty1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: United Kingdom dagenham
Posts: 347
Re: When is room treatment needed

Quote:
bpape wrote: View Post
In theory, you'd want to be somewhere between 6' and 7' from rear wall to seated ear position. That's theoretical but it usually falls somewhere in that range.

Bryan
Thanks Bryan

The only problem with that is it puts me too close to the 16:9 pj screen, this is 9 feet wide by just over 5 feet high, I was informed by the installer that ideally you need to sit no closer than around 3 times the height of the screen distance away, this means that 3 feet is really all I should have from me to the rear wall, but I just about got away with 5 feet forwards, my wife wasn't too keen on the couch being there as it made the room feel a lot smaller and it was in between the 2 doors so you have to squeeze around it.

So I guess I should get it back to 5 feet? Although it is smoother than the 2 feet from rear wall response, would you class that as a very good response or is there still a lot of work to be done?

Thanks again Bryan

I am now gonna make my wife happy and tell her to get off the couch so I can do some more mad scientist stuff
marty1 is offline  
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
needed , room , treatment

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now




PLEASE COMPLETE ALL REQUIRED FIELDS BELOW... THANKS!

REQUIRED FIELDS ON THIS PAGE
YOU MUST COMPLETE ALL OF THESE

Username
Password
Confirm Password
Email Address
Confirm Email Address
Random Question
Random Question #2




User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
PLEASE READ BELOW PRIOR TO ENTERING AN EMAIL ADDRESS!

ATTENTION!

YOU MUST ACTIVATE YOUR ACCOUNT!

Activation requires you reply to an email we will send you after you register... if you do not reply to this email, you will not be able to view certain areas of the forum or certain images... nor will you be able download software.

AN INVALID EMAIL ADDRESS WILL CAUSE YOUR ACCOUNT TO BE DELETED!

See our banned email list here: Banned Email List

We DO NOT respond to spamcop, boxtrapper and spamblocker emails... please add @hometheatershack DOT com to your whitelist prior to registering or you will get nowhere on your registration.


Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML is not allowed!
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 


For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome