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post #21 of 51 Old 10-22-14, 03:33 PM
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Re: Acoustic Treatment Phase 2

242's won't get down to 80 and doubt that the problems down there are front wall anyway. If you can move the speakers closer or farther from the wall to see what issues are coming from that, we can give a better recommendation on what would work. Could also be the ceiling if a peak or cancellation off the wall behind you if a null.

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post #22 of 51 Old 10-27-14, 11:33 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Acoustic Treatment Phase 2

Thanks as always for the quick and helpful response last week Bryan. I had a chance tonight to do some more measuring. I have moved my Paradigms back into place as my review of the Chane speakers is finished (although I still temporarily have the subs hooked up and one PEQ filter to tame a peak around 70Hz). I played around a bit with the placement of the front right speaker and did some full range sweeps of the right channel plus subs. Turns out moving the front speaker out into the room (while maintaining same distance from the side wall) makes a drastic difference in the response between 100Hz and 400Hz - i.e. my problem area. So I guess this is good news in the sense that it should help narrow down the issue, but not great news in the sense that it's not practical to leave the front speakers in the position that gave the best response.

Here are the measurements. Distances are from front wall to roughly front panel of the speaker. In all cases the speaker is 1/4 of the room width from the side wall.

24" from front wall (most convenient location, worst response)


31" from front wall (not great placement, better response)


42" from front wall (worst location, best response )


Combined (including 47.5" from wall which was no better than 42")


Waterfall for the 42" location


Does this confirm that the front wall needs to be treated with something pretty thick? I would like to achieve the response of the third graph at the speaker location of the first graph, if possible.


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post #23 of 51 Old 10-28-14, 12:16 AM
 
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Re: Acoustic Treatment Phase 2

Question: When you are measuring from the back wall... Is it to the front of the speaker or the rear? My speakers are currently 2' from the rear of the speaker but will be within inches when i move the screen back. If I measure from the front of the speaker I am 6' from the wall, and later will be 4' from the back wall.

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post #24 of 51 Old 10-28-14, 08:43 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Acoustic Treatment Phase 2

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ellisr63 wrote: View Post
Question: When you are measuring from the back wall... Is it to the front of the speaker or the rear? My speakers are currently 2' from the rear of the speaker but will be within inches when i move the screen back. If I measure from the front of the speaker I am 6' from the wall, and later will be 4' from the back wall.
Ron - all of my measurements are from the front wall to the front of the speaker, so as you said the gap between the front wall and back of my speaker would be smaller by 18" or so. Unfortunately my room arrangement makes it extremely impractical to put them 3'-4' out into the room where the response is clearly much better.

The actual distances in this case are mostly arbitrary, and the purpose of the experiment was to determine if the speaker's proximity to the front wall was affecting it's response from 100Hz-400Hz. Once I've added appropriate treatments I'll still tweak the final position of the speakers to balance good response and aesthetics/convenience.

edit: my goal here is not only to have good response from my mains and subs, but to also end up with a room that is much less sensitive to placement of mains and subs.


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post #25 of 51 Old 10-28-14, 11:33 AM
 
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Re: Acoustic Treatment Phase 2

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Ron - all of my measurements are from the front wall to the front of the speaker, so as you said the gap between the front wall and back of my speaker would be smaller by 18" or so. Unfortunately my room arrangement makes it extremely impractical to put them 3'-4' out into the room where the response is clearly much better.

The actual distances in this case are mostly arbitrary, and the purpose of the experiment was to determine if the speaker's proximity to the front wall was affecting it's response from 100Hz-400Hz. Once I've added appropriate treatments I'll still tweak the final position of the speakers to balance good response and aesthetics/convenience.

edit: my goal here is not only to have good response from my mains and subs, but to also end up with a room that is much less sensitive to placement of mains and subs.
Thanks for the info Peter... I am assuming your speakers are maybe a foot or so deep? What would happen if you made a acoustic baffle wall sealing off the speakers from the rear wall, but at the same time you would have a cavity for the return waves to be absorbed? You could then wrap the baffle wall with GOM (if you don't have a AT screen)... I am thinking that it might work nicely as a bass trap too.

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post #26 of 51 Old 10-28-14, 12:07 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Acoustic Treatment Phase 2

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Thanks for the info Peter... I am assuming your speakers are maybe a foot or so deep? What would happen if you made a acoustic baffle wall sealing off the speakers from the rear wall, but at the same time you would have a cavity for the return waves to be absorbed? You could then wrap the baffle wall with GOM (if you don't have a AT screen)... I am thinking that it might work nicely as a bass trap too.
They are 17"-18" deep. The baffle wall could potentially help. I'm not using a projector and my front wall has doors on either side, just outside my mains. Since the TV and door locations plus room layout don't give me a lot of freedom to move the speakers around, I'm hoping I can do something with the room itself to cut back on its effects on the mains' response. If I had the front corners free (no doors) I'd stack some corner traps there. In hindsight flipping the room 180 might have been a better option, but I'd have had to hang the TV over a window and run a lot more wiring to the opposite side of the room. I might still do that someday.

Here is a current pic of my front wall to give you an idea.


Door locations for reference. Mains are hard to see but are positioned between display and doors.


I would eventually like to do a PJ and AT screen with mains and CC behind. I could fit about 120"-130" (don't remember what I calculated) diagonal screen in the space between the doors. I would bump the whole curtain/false wall out into the room deep enough to fit the mains and CC behind the screen and front sub behind the curtain below the screen. I could then very easily acoustically treat that whole front wall and maybe even do some kind of baffle as you suggested.


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post #27 of 51 Old 10-31-14, 08:54 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Acoustic Treatment Phase 2

Bryan - any suggestions based on the latest set of graphs comparing the mains close to the wall vs out in the room?


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post #28 of 51 Old 11-01-14, 10:34 AM
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Re: Acoustic Treatment Phase 2

42" is most definitely the best response and not at all too far forward from a performance and depth of imaging standpoint. Why is this not practical?

Try moving them back to the moderate position and playing with the distance to the side wall and see if you can balance it out between the 2.

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post #29 of 51 Old 11-01-14, 07:01 PM Thread Starter
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42" is most definitely the best response and not at all too far forward from a performance and depth of imaging standpoint. Why is this not practical? Try moving them back to the moderate position and playing with the distance to the side wall and see if you can balance it out between the 2.
The 42" position puts the left speaker directly in the path of anyone coming into or out of the room. It wouldn't be catastrophic, just not convenient. I guess I could stick them there for a couple weeks and see if I can tolerate it.


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post #30 of 51 Old 11-16-14, 02:37 AM
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Re: Acoustic Treatment Phase 2

So how is it going with the speaker placement issue's you have been dealing with? Have you thought about going 30" from the wall and placing a monster trap behind them? Maybe try a 242 and a 244 behind each main andifference see how it sounds.

Just a thought.
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