Adding sub to "full range"... - Page 5 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

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post #41 of 48 Old 03-28-08, 07:16 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Adding sub to "full range"...

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superchad wrote: View Post
I run full plus sub in my Rotel, it is useful when you have full range fronts for extra depth in the presentaion but center and all surrounds follow what ever cross over you set. If my speakers couldnt handle bas as low as they do (Iam down -10db at 16Hz) I wouldnt use this feature as it could be a woofer killer.
that's one thing I'm afraid I'm doing now, which is one reason I want to add the sub, is certain scenes seem to be doing things to my fronts, that I don't pick up when I run a scan, so I don't think it's room acoustics, but rather trying to play freqs that are too far down their slope to hear effectively, so my LFE mix is turned way up... of course, it could simply be listening to the harmonics with a severely reduced fundamental, since it's so far down their slope... I really have to turn that LFE down and see what happens...

not enough hours in the day...
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post #42 of 48 Old 03-28-08, 09:46 AM
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Re: Adding sub to "full range"...

From the research I have done when 5.1 surrround was originaly demoed they had a subwoofer associated with each channel then something bigger for the .1...so I would find a way to add a sub to all of the channels...then happyness will ensue.
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post #43 of 48 Old 03-28-08, 03:05 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Adding sub to "full range"...

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SQCherokee wrote: View Post
From the research I have done when 5.1 surrround was originaly demoed they had a subwoofer associated with each channel then something bigger for the .1...so I would find a way to add a sub to all of the channels...then happyness will ensue.
Well, I'm a full believer in themore subs the better... (pay no attention to the fact that I have yet to own one)...

My ultimate goal is a sub underneath each and every seating position...

Anyone who want ot give me a job that'll let me afford that I'm soliciting offers...
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post #44 of 48 Old 03-28-08, 03:16 PM
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Re: Adding sub to "full range"...

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My ultimate goal is a sub underneath each and every seating position...
Your looking at lots of issues with that idea. Phase cancellation being one of the biggest. Your far better off adding one Butt kicker to each chair/sofa.

Multiple subs installed improperly and set up wrong will not improve bass response and will most likely cause huge dips and peaks in the room of the frequency response. Room treatment, placement and base trapping becomes crucial.

Home theater:
Onkyo 805, Yamaha YDP2006EQ, Samson Servo 600 amp
3 EV Sentry 500 monitors across the front, 4 Mission 762i's Surrounds, SVS PB13U sub, Panasonic BDT220, Harmony 1100, Nintendo WiiU
Panasonic PT-AE8000 on a 120" 2,35:1 fixed screen

Living room system:
Sherwood/Newcastle R972, Mission 765's, SVS SBS02's, A/D/S MS3u sub, Yamaha YDG2030EQ
Yamaha KX-393 Tape deck, CDC 805 CD changer, Panasonic BD60, Sony turntable PS-T20
Panasonic TC-P50ST60, HD-PVR & WDTV Live, Harmony 900

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post #45 of 48 Old 03-28-08, 05:04 PM
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Re: Adding sub to "full range"...

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tonyvdb wrote: View Post
Your looking at lots of issues with that idea. Phase cancellation being one of the biggest. Your far better off adding one Butt kicker to each chair/sofa.

Multiple subs installed improperly and set up wrong will not improve bass response and will most likely cause huge dips and peaks in the room of the frequency response. Room treatment, placement and base trapping becomes crucial.
I couldnt agree more, more subs can just add more problems if not done right.... not only is a Butt-Kicker going to give you the same percieved result it is going to be alot cheaper, I have Aura Bass Shakers in all my chairs and they work great....they only cost me $10 for each unit. I have heard (felt) the Butt Kicker units and they perform no better than the Bass Shaker but the cost 20x as much, they are both bass resonator units but also the Bass Shakers are much smaller and easier to integrate IMO.
Dont let the Bass Shakers price fool you, I want the best performance possible for the money and have a system with over $20,000 in equipment, I refrence this to assure you I would pay for the Butt Kicker units if I thought they were better or worth it. I am not sure if Bass Shakers are available anymore as I seem to remember I got them cheap on closeout special. They sat in their boxes for over 2 years before I installed, my friend turned me onto them and has them installed in his seats. No matter which unit these are going to be a better and easier to work with....and cheaper solution you need to explore. Cheers
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post #46 of 48 Old 04-24-08, 09:52 PM
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Re: Adding sub to "full range"...

Seems like alot of different experiences. My experience using two stereo subs up front underneath my main L and R speakers differs. I used four different types of speakers and in each case I found that running into the sub first, and then from sub up to speaker using hi level line out was best. The subs default was to send everything above 150Hz to the speakers so in this case the subs were handling alot. There was no localization issues since the subs were directly below the speakers. The set up, in essence, made a full range speaker system good down to 22Hz. Once I got past the thought of how high I thought 150Hz was, I never looked back.
I tried various other hook ups and different crossover settings, but overall, running the subs the way I did sounded best=for me in my room.

Many speakers use a large woofer and they play pretty high up into the frequency ranges. Its not like a 12 or 15 can't play that high.

The room and placement plays a large role.
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post #47 of 48 Old 04-24-08, 10:29 PM
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Re: Adding sub to "full range"...

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Seems like alot of different experiences. My experience using two stereo subs up front underneath my main L and R speakers differs. I used four different types of speakers and in each case I found that running into the sub first, and then from sub up to speaker using hi level line out was best. .
I agree with the first part of the response. I use dual Dayton RS series 10" subs in 1.5 cuft sealed enclosures next to my mains crossed over at 80hz using the high level in/outs. This allows my mains to handle a bit more power and they sound a little more airy in the midrange. The subs handle the left and right lows and i use the LFE output strictly for HT use down to sub 20hz. I was able to build the two subs for under $500 for the pair and for Music, i am never wanting. I don't have any phase issues that i can't control with the plate amps controls and they integrate perfectly with the mains so that i can't even tell that they're there ! As for wanting to use your mains to their full potential that's your call but i feel speaker manufacturers are always trying to extend low frequency response as far as possible in large boxes. You would probobly find that the free air frequency of your woofers in your mains is probobly in the 50-60hz range and asking them to play lower than that is stretching their capability to the end of their usefull range and beyond creating a power soak on your AVR as mentioned above resulting in distortion from both the AVR and the non linear response of the woofer excursion. Removing frequencies from 80hz and below will DEFINATELY improve the sound of your front soundstage.
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post #48 of 48 Old 04-25-08, 09:44 AM
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Re: Adding sub to "full range"...

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jakewash wrote: View Post
Wasn't that 80hz cross over thing brought out/setup by THX anyway?

IMO, it really has no basis when it comes to music systems unless your system can not handle frequencies below that with authority. Speakers should be set up as dictated by the capabilities of each speaker or system and the way each individual likes, as that is all that really matters.
My understanding is that they decided based on directionality research. They were working on a .1, not .2 standard. Research showed most folks can't tell direction reliably at less than 100 hz and no one in the test group could under 80 hz, hence the setting of the standard. From what I can tell, little or no consideration was given to equipment.

I couldn't agree more with your last observation.

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