Centers as LCR vs Bookshelves - Page 2 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com
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post #11 of 15 Old 01-21-15, 08:00 PM
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Re: Centers as LCR vs Bookshelves

While I am very fond of the Arx's & plan on using them in my room. Don't forget about the deal craigsub is offering on his M1's. They would fit you bill perfectly & are Black Friday priced @ $100 each.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...ubwoofers.html

Do yourself a favor and give Craig a call.
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post #12 of 15 Old 01-23-15, 03:28 AM
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Re: Centers as LCR vs Bookshelves

MTM center channel lobing (when laid on it's side) is only a problem around 30 degrees off axis. Only the people outside of that cone may experience the peaks and nulls that lobing can introduce.

And most of those people are not audio enthusiasts and won't care!

Personally, I wouldn't hesitate to get five MTM's and lay one down. Rotate the center tweeter, if needed, and enjoy.

"I left in love, in laughter, and in truth and wherever truth, love and laughter abide, I am there in spirit." - Bill Hicks
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post #13 of 15 Old 01-26-15, 10:00 AM
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Re: Centers as LCR vs Bookshelves

Quote:
Bruce Fisher wrote: View Post
I have been planning on purchasing 3 Center speakers as my LCR's... any reason this is a bad idea? I think I like having 3 identical speakers (I did this in my last theater). I assume (most) center channels have better mid-bass since they usually have two 5.25" or 6" woofers (vs a bookshelf with 1).

Any reason this is not an ideal setup? Or am I better off with traditional L/R bookshelves and a Center for the C? Why don't more people use Centers for L/R? And why don't more sellers promote this concept?
It's an excellent idea. The second paralleled midbass driver in a symmetrical MTM (or "center") adds a whopping 100% to the speaker's capacity where it counts, which is in its foundational efficiency and thermal power capacity. Good driver selection and crossover work can also improve soundfield consistency over a conventional asymmetrical array - over a standard tweeter-midwoofer T/M or M/T.

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Bruce Fisher wrote: View Post
Wouldn't the MTM lobbing only be an issue if they are horizontal? But if I have them all vertical - wouldn't that be ok?
It certainly would be okay.

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Bruce Fisher wrote: View Post
Looking at Chane A1 vs A2 (since they are mentioned and one of my top candidates) - I would assume (since I haven't heard these in person and so I have to make a guess) the A2 would be a bit fuller and richer since it has two 5.25" vs 1 and the cabinet is larger?
Exactly. Roughly double the acoustical horsepower, which in HT matters...and that's not including the Chane SplitGap advantage, which nearly doubles again the linear output and can cut distortion by well over half. The A2rx-c gets up and goes.

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Bruce Fisher wrote: View Post
How come we never see reviews of speakers like this? (not just here, but magazines, etc). I guess one downside of this approach is that you still need stands - and with this added cost and no real reduction in floor space - I suppose people just gravitate to the towers? Maybe I'm thinking about this wrong and should be considering towers even though I don't have a real large space?
The next comment is right on the mark. Rare, but right on, and it lays the ground work to answering your questions.

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nova wrote: View Post
There is a bit of a difference between vertical LCR speakers and horizontal center channel speakers. There was a lot of work put into the D'Appolito speaker design and a reason why there are so many excellent speakers out there that use it. Speaker design, driver placement, crossover design, cabinet edge diffraction and on and on and on all play a very important role in how a speaker performs. A well designed speaker is going to perform well no matter.

Problem is that not all MTM speakers adhere to D'Appolito's design.

There are pros and cons to every speaker design. For example a pro for the D'Appolito (MTM) is that the broad horizontal dispersion of sound works very well for multiple seating positions in a home theater environment. And on the flip side, the imaging of a typical (TM) bookshelf may only benefit the person sitting in the sweet spot.
All true. While the pure, original D'Appolito array, as implemented by the late John Dunlavy and others, was a specific work with a very specific aim, many MTMs are not of that caliber. They cannot be because the design restrictions are significant.

Instead, most MTMs actually deviate from that ideal setup in the area where it was ideal. Further, conventional wisdom assumes that any symmetrical array - any and all MTMs - must lobe. Untrue, especially considering that every asymmetrical array lobes.

The short version of all this is that the lobing assumption, while true in many cases, is neither exclusive just to MTMs nor is it representative of all MTMs.

Further, a vertical MTM, heard more or less perpendicular to the front baffle and on-axis to the treble component, has no more inherent lobing than a conventional asymmetrical speaker - a bookshelf, or any other T/M - in the same alignment in your space and assuming equally competent designs.

So, put 'em up where you would any other speaker, orient them toward the listener - again, as you would any other speaker - and especially if the design is aimed at not lobing, which MTMs can be excellent at, enjoy a consistent sound field and all that added acoustic horsepower and slashed distortion.

...Assuming the better half lets you, naturally.
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post #14 of 15 Old 01-26-15, 10:34 PM
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Re: Centers as LCR vs Bookshelves

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nova wrote: View Post
There is a bit of a difference between vertical LCR speakers and horizontal center channel speakers. There was a lot of work put into the D'Appolito speaker design and a reason why there are so many excellent speakers out there that use it. Speaker design, driver placement, crossover design, cabinet edge diffraction and on and on and on all play a very important role in how a speaker performs. A well designed speaker is going to perform well no matter.

Here are a couple of reviews for LCRs.
Snell Acoustics LCR7 XL
RBH Sound MC-616C

Problem is that not all MTM speakers adhere to D'Appolito's design.
There are pros and cons to every speaker design. For example a pro for the D'Appolito (MTM) is that the broad horizontal dispersion of sound works very well for multiple seating positions in a home theater environment. And on the flip side, the imaging of a typical (TM) bookshelf may only benefit the person sitting in the sweet spot.
I'd also like to add praise to this post. An MTM does not a D'Appolito make!

"I left in love, in laughter, and in truth and wherever truth, love and laughter abide, I am there in spirit." - Bill Hicks
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post #15 of 15 Old 01-26-15, 10:38 PM
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Re: Centers as LCR vs Bookshelves

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MTM center channel lobing (when laid on it's side) is only a problem around 30 degrees off axis. Only the people outside of that cone may experience the peaks and nulls that lobing can introduce.

And most of those people are not audio enthusiasts and won't care!

Personally, I wouldn't hesitate to get five MTM's and lay one down. Rotate the center tweeter, if needed, and enjoy.
To avoid confusion I should qualify my statement with "may be a problem around 30 degrees off axis".

"I left in love, in laughter, and in truth and wherever truth, love and laughter abide, I am there in spirit." - Bill Hicks
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