Inwall/onwall/inceiling speaker advice - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

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post #1 of 31 Old 06-01-08, 08:49 PM Thread Starter
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Inwall/onwall/inceiling speaker advice

Hello,

We are planning to upgrade our HT equipment to 7.1 as part of a larger project. I'm looking for advice on inwall/onwall/inceiling speakers to replace our current speakers. I have about $5000 to spend, but my wife already said yes to 2 SVS PB13 Ultras so I'm not looking back. The rest of the budget is for the other speakers. These are some of the brands that local dealers carry: B&W, Klipsch, KEF, Energy, Paradigm. I've also looked at Def Tech, Axiom, and Infinity. The more I look, the more confused I am about quality and value.

My current set up is:
Infinity Beta 20 (LF & RF)
Infinity Beta C360 (C)
Infinity Beta ES250 (LR, CR, RR)
Infinity CWS 10 Sub (x2)
Sony STR-DA5ES
Sony HS-50?? Projector
Draper 100" FP screen
Sony PS3
Sony Directv HD Receiver
Monster HTS-2600 power center

Is there enough in my budget to build a good inwall/onwall/inceiling system? If I only went with 1 PB13 for now, and increased the speaker budget accordingly, would it make a big enough difference in speaker quality/value?

Here are pictures of the space. Thanks for your thoughts in advance.

kjl
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post #2 of 31 Old 06-02-08, 09:10 AM
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Re: Inwall/onwall/inceiling speaker advice

We may be able to offer more help if we understood what you consider are the shortcomings of your present speaker setup and what you're trying to achieve by upgrading. Is the upgrade being driven by ascetics? I'm thinking the prescence of two honking big PB13's is going to pretty much overshadow any other appearance considerations.

My research led me to conclude that you pay a huge engineering surcharge for inwalls. In other words, because of the limitations imposed, you have to pay 2x-3x more for the same performance level in inwalls compared to more traditional enclosures.

Doug
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post #3 of 31 Old 06-02-08, 10:37 AM
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Re: Inwall/onwall/inceiling speaker advice

It is always better to avoid in wall/ceiling speakers due to the natural characteristics of in-walls. Placement become a huge deal where standard speakers are far more forgiving and usually sound better in the end even if you do it right with the in-walls.
As Doug mentioned getting two PB13's will be hard to miss so you would be better off with proper traditional speakers.

Home theater:
Onkyo 805, Yamaha YDP2006EQ, Samson Servo 600 amp
3 EV Sentry 500 monitors across the front, 4 Mission 762i's Surrounds, SVS PB13U sub, Panasonic BDT220, Harmony 1100, Nintendo WiiU
Panasonic PT-AE8000 on a 120" 2,35:1 fixed screen

Living room system:
Sherwood/Newcastle R972, Mission 765's, SVS SBS02's, A/D/S MS3u sub, Yamaha YDG2030EQ
Yamaha KX-393 Tape deck, CDC 805 CD changer, Panasonic BD60, Sony turntable PS-T20
Panasonic TC-P50ST60, HD-PVR & WDTV Live, Harmony 900

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post #4 of 31 Old 06-02-08, 02:41 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Inwall/onwall/inceiling speaker advice

The reason for the change is aesthetics. We want a cleaner front wall so we are placing the components in a to be built in wall cabinet on the right wall (as you face the screen) and looking at inwall speakers. Honestly, I had not thought of just moving the components and leaving the speakers until now.? I actually really like my speaker set up except for the rear soundfield depth and the bass. I put our current system together by reading mags and online information. I want to do the same for this upgrade/change, but the price of "good inwalls with integrated backs and so on and so forth" has me hesistant to proceed and curious about alternatives.

As you look at the photo of the projector and rear speakers, we added the mounting soffitt to the original basement plan for my ES250s'. Its not structural and can be removed. I thought we could go with in ceiling speakers for the four surround channels. I also thought moving the rear centers back would improve the depth. It just occurred to me that without the components in front, we could move the couch a bit closer to the screen and improve rear depth.?

The theater area is 12 x 18 but the room is quite large at ~6500 cubic feet and the stairs are open to the floor above. Even though my Infinity subs seem strong, I know I'm missing "something" that folks on these pages describe in their HT experiences. I hope the Ultra can help with my feelings of inadequacy. My wife likes the rosenut and I've failed to mention posts from others that the Ultra is bigger than it looks. Going to have to discuss that. Should I be posting the sub stuff in the sub area? Is there a way to post to both?

I hope I haven't written too much, but I want to be thorough because I really appreciate your thoughts. I like the ideas that have surfaced just by responding to your questions. For instance, maybe I do nothing but move the components and couch and add the Ultras???

Thanks again.

kjl
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post #5 of 31 Old 06-02-08, 03:20 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Inwall/onwall/inceiling speaker advice

Hi Tony,

How do you get your system components to show in your posts? I listed them in my profile but I don't see how to display them.

Thanks,

kjl
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post #6 of 31 Old 06-02-08, 03:34 PM
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Re: Inwall/onwall/inceiling speaker advice

Quote:
kjlewie wrote: View Post
Hi Tony,

How do you get your system components to show in your posts? I listed them in my profile but I don't see how to display them.

Thanks,

kjl
Hi,
you need to go into the "user CP" tab at the top of the web page and select the "edit signature" box. That will give you access to what you want.
If memory serves me you have to have 10 posts before you can add a signature.

Home theater:
Onkyo 805, Yamaha YDP2006EQ, Samson Servo 600 amp
3 EV Sentry 500 monitors across the front, 4 Mission 762i's Surrounds, SVS PB13U sub, Panasonic BDT220, Harmony 1100, Nintendo WiiU
Panasonic PT-AE8000 on a 120" 2,35:1 fixed screen

Living room system:
Sherwood/Newcastle R972, Mission 765's, SVS SBS02's, A/D/S MS3u sub, Yamaha YDG2030EQ
Yamaha KX-393 Tape deck, CDC 805 CD changer, Panasonic BD60, Sony turntable PS-T20
Panasonic TC-P50ST60, HD-PVR & WDTV Live, Harmony 900

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post #7 of 31 Old 06-03-08, 08:12 AM
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Re: Inwall/onwall/inceiling speaker advice

Quote:
kjlewie wrote: View Post
The reason for the change is aesthetics. We want a cleaner front wall so we are placing the components in a to be built in wall cabinet on the right wall (as you face the screen) and looking at inwall speakers.

The theater area is 12 x 18 but the room is quite large at ~6500 cubic feet and the stairs are open to the floor above. Even though my Infinity subs seem strong, I know I'm missing "something" that folks on these pages describe in their HT experiences. I hope the Ultra can help with my feelings of inadequacy.

For instance, maybe I do nothing but move the components and couch and add the Ultras???

kjl
Have you considered an AT Screen? You can buy the material for you size screen for ~$150 from Seymour (http://centerstagescreens.com/screens.asp) and build the frame. You could send off for a sample of the material to see if it would suit you with your projector. That would solve your clean front wall objective.

Even with the size of your room, I think the Ultra will fill the bill, especially if you spring for two! I've got a PB12-NSD waiting to go into our dedicated HT. In the meantime, it's hanging out upstairs in a space roughly double your size. We were watching "The Diving Bell and the Butterfly" (great movie) last night. There are some scenes with some deep bass heartbeats. Even at moderate levels, it was rattling the spoons in the old spoon display case 20 feet away!

Doug

Last edited by DougMac; 06-03-08 at 08:23 AM.
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post #8 of 31 Old 06-03-08, 09:31 AM
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Re: Inwall/onwall/inceiling speaker advice

If you're happy with your Infinitys, then stay with those.
Keep away from in-ceiling speakers. There are good in-wall, but they are not cheap.
Adding a better sub will be the best solution.
One thing to improve your surrounds, would be mounting the L/R surrounds on the side walls and leaving the middle where it is. Like you have said, you can move the seating forward after you put the gear in the closet. So then you mount the side surrounds in line with the seating.
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post #9 of 31 Old 06-03-08, 04:32 PM
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Re: Inwall/onwall/inceiling speaker advice

I also think you'll have to compromise sound to get the hidden speaker aesthetic in your room. It looks like you have a great setup now, and to switch to an in wall front stage you'd only be gaining a tiny bit of room back. Will the new component cabinet be built into the wall as well? Otherwise, if you still have something out front, you may as well keep the speakers out in the open where they'll sound better. I can see moving to in wall or ceiling surrounds, because they aren't as critical (IMHO), but you'll still have a different sound than you have now, with the soffit (that I like actually).

- OJ -

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post #10 of 31 Old 06-03-08, 06:01 PM
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Re: Inwall/onwall/inceiling speaker advice

Have you considered Magnepan MC1 or the soon to be released MC2? I love mine but I would recommend auditioning a pair before buying because they do have a unique flavor.

As far as a sub options you could always build a hidden LLT or an IB.

Matt

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