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post #51 of 187 Old 05-26-10, 02:28 PM
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Re: Thoughts on Behringer Studio Monitors (2030 and others), active and passive

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The thing with monitors is not how perfectly flat their response is (Although I like to keep it in the ballpark). It is picking something and then learning exactly how music sounds on those speakers in that room, so that you know them intimately and know how a good recording of the typical genre you work with should sound through them. Familiarity is key with mixing. Lots of great albums were mixed on Yamaha NS10's which are not the best speakers. 2031's are perfectly fine for monitoring.
All good points, but you still want speakers that allow you to hear everything so that you don't find stuff appearing when you play your mixes elsewhere.
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post #52 of 187 Old 05-27-10, 02:00 PM
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Re: Thoughts on Behringer Studio Monitors (2030 and others), active and passive

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All good points, but you still want speakers that allow you to hear everything so that you don't find stuff appearing when you play your mixes elsewhere.
Obviously. These Behringers easily do this from 50-20khz. The problem is not with the monitors it's when you play the mixes elsewhere the quality of that system is never known and is usually much less (car systems, radio's, older inferior speakers, boomboxes, bad room acoustics, etc..) All can push forward or recede various frequency bands in the overall mix.

Without getting too far off topic... I trust to measurements much more than anyone's ears. Which is not to say that their aren't some people's opinions I would trust, but many times the sound that is preferred is technically less accurate to the original signal prior to the speaker producing it and the room influencing the radiation.
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post #53 of 187 Old 05-27-10, 05:26 PM
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Re: Thoughts on Behringer Studio Monitors (2030 and others), active and passive

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Obviously. These Behringers easily do this from 50-20khz.
I take it you're referring to the 2031s, as it seems the 2030s apparently don't really go below 100hz.

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The problem is not with the monitors it's when you play the mixes elsewhere the quality of that system is never known and is usually much less (car systems, radio's, older inferior speakers, boomboxes, bad room acoustics, etc..) All can push forward or recede various frequency bands in the overall mix.
True, but equally you don't really want monitors that 'recede' certain frequencies, so that you aren't able to hear things that are present and then pop-out at you when listening elsewhere. I guess if you couldn't get a flat monitor, one that overemphasized certain frequencies would be preferable to the opposite, as then at least you'd be hearing stuff and could perhaps EQ it down or just learn that's how the speakers are and allow for that.

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Without getting too far off topic... I trust to measurements much more than anyone's ears. Which is not to say that their aren't some people's opinions I would trust, but many times the sound that is preferred is technically less accurate to the original signal prior to the speaker producing it and the room influencing the radiation.
I'm not saying measurements aren't useful, but without knowing exactly how they were made I can't put too much trust in them, as graphs can be made to show whatever you like, by for example using extra room treatment to compensate for the speaker's flaws. Hell, someone could just mock one up in photoshop or the like for that matter.
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post #54 of 187 Old 05-27-10, 05:33 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Thoughts on Behringer Studio Monitors (2030 and others), active and passive

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I'm not saying measurements aren't useful, but without knowing exactly how they were made I can't put too much trust in them, as graphs can be made to show whatever you like, by for example using extra room treatment to compensate for the speaker's flaws. Hell, someone could just mock one up in photoshop or the like for that matter.
Well, what you're talking about is just pure fraud. Measurements should be accompanied by a description of how they were conducted. Obviously photoshopping is a huge no-no, but if a measurement is done under non-anechoic conditions, a reputable manufacturer should make that known.
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post #55 of 187 Old 05-28-10, 10:05 AM
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Re: Thoughts on Behringer Studio Monitors (2030 and others), active and passive

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Well, what you're talking about is just pure fraud. Measurements should be accompanied by a description of how they were conducted. Obviously photoshopping is a huge no-no, but if a measurement is done under non-anechoic conditions, a reputable manufacturer should make that known.
Right.

FWIW the Behringers come in matched pairs with a response measurement for both speakers individually. They are very flat. This has been independently measured and confirmed by a couple of users as well. There are other aspects of a speaker worth looking at but a relatively flat FR and good off axis response are good places to start. Also any serious monitoring system should have a sub system to extend the bass response, which can be turned on or off to simulate LF bandwidth limited systems.
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post #56 of 187 Old 05-28-10, 05:32 PM
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Re: Thoughts on Behringer Studio Monitors (2030 and others), active and passive

The measurements in this topic were done in probably the most treated room on planet earth. The guy who did the measurement is one of the top two experts in the DIY speaker area I know. The other guy specializes in TL designs so I wouldn't expect him to evaluate the speakers. Couple that with Ricci's endorsement and I don't see why anyone would argue against these things. On top of that I got a list of folks that use and love these things.

80hz and below can be easily handled by a Subwoofer so I see no reason not to use these in monitoring. They are after all built for that purpose. Everything above 100hz is most of the music anyway.
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post #57 of 187 Old 06-30-10, 09:37 PM
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Re: Thoughts on Behringer Studio Monitors (2030 and others), active and passive

OK, here's some gated measurements to remove first room reflection of the B2031P. You make your own conclusions.

Polar response: mic 2ft 6" away gated to 3msec unsmoothed, but not high frequency resolution d/t gating from on center axis out to 90 degrees off axis in 11.25 degree steps.

Near field response at high resolution on axis confirms the on axis graph. Very impressive for this price point. I mean extremely impressive.


This is the overlay of every impulse response from the graph about. Bar none the best I've measured.


This is the average of the 11.25 degrees off axis to 90 degrees off axis responses:


Windows/Internet Explorer user can see another look and confirmation of my data at http://www.gedlee.com/Loudspeakers.htm
Go to "Preview Data Program", download it and check out the Behringer measurements.

Nice

Dan

One more thing:
Just for a comparison, here's a popular, highly regarded in the community, DIY speaker with a 10" woofer and dome tweeter under exact same conditions.


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post #58 of 187 Old 07-01-10, 12:05 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Thoughts on Behringer Studio Monitors (2030 and others), active and passive

After a spell, I've finally gotten my B2031A up and running. No pro measurements like above, but I've been enjoying them immensely. Even with the larger woofer, you will want a sub, even for music. My SPL meters are still packed up somewhere, but to ear, they start to drop between 50 and 40HZ, to much less output at 30HZ. Included graph shows down about 10db from 40 to 30.

Overall, I've been very pleased. They image really well, have tight, punchy bass, and the highs are clear (though I still prefer my JBLs which I'm sure a lot of people would consider overly-bright). The amp section seems pretty low-noise and hasn't given me any fits so far.

I'm pretty thrilled, and can't wait to try some of the mods mentioned. I definitely wouldn't hesitate to put the 2030P out there as a fantastically inexpensive home theater speaker, though the 2031 will likely be too large for most.

That's all I have this late at night, just was loving the graphs and had to chime in.
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post #59 of 187 Old 07-01-10, 12:30 AM
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Re: Thoughts on Behringer Studio Monitors (2030 and others), active and passive

Cool, glad you like the graphs. You've got great speakers! These things are a steal. I think I still prefer my homemade speakers, but they cost a lot more and are an ever evolving work and it's probably just Proud Pappa Syndrome, the distance I listen at(the narrower directivity prevents room influences to some degree), and the higher efficiency. If I had it to do over again I'd have just bought these. I could live with either. The 2030 model looks interesting as well. No matter what you'll needs subs.
My polar graph looks like this:


I didn't do the others with my own yet and will have to get around to it at some point.

Good on you Mr. Eugo!

Dan

Last edited by DanTheMan; 07-01-10 at 12:36 AM.
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post #60 of 187 Old 07-01-10, 10:06 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Thoughts on Behringer Studio Monitors (2030 and others), active and passive

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Cool, glad you like the graphs. You've got great speakers! These things are a steal. I think I still prefer my homemade speakers, but they cost a lot more and are an ever evolving work and it's probably just Proud Pappa Syndrome, the distance I listen at(the narrower directivity prevents room influences to some degree), and the higher efficiency. If I had it to do over again I'd have just bought these. I could live with either. The 2030 model looks interesting as well. No matter what you'll needs subs.
My polar graph looks like this:


I didn't do the others with my own yet and will have to get around to it at some point.

Good on you Mr. Eugo!

Dan
Were the previous graphs done by you as well?
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