Surround Speakers? - Page 3 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #21 of 35 Old 06-09-06, 02:47 PM
Darrel Hawthorne
Inactive
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Surround Speakers?

Hey Chuck,
Thanks for sharing this insight with us.
I would not have a problem using a center channel if I can convince myself that I can go with a perforated screen.

I have noticed that on some recordings it seemed like they skimped on the dialog being sent to the mains.
In this instance, I found it hard to understand everything being said.
I have had many other experiences where this was not an issue.
My mains Image vertically quite well , but fall a bit short setting on the floor,depending again on the recording.

I have a lot to learn about "Theatre Sound"....Looks like I have come to the right place.
Thanks
Darrel
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22 of 35 Old 06-09-06, 03:07 PM
Senior Shackster
 
Wayde's Avatar
Wayde
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Waterloo ON, Canada
Posts: 539
Re: Surround Speakers?

Quote:
Darrel Hawthorne wrote:
H
I have noticed that on some recordings it seemed like they skimped on the dialog being sent to the mains.
Allow me to present my own experience with that problem.

For me it was a center speaker problem and I think that's pretty common. The prime example is on the DVD The Matrix (the first Matrix film) where Neo "follows the white rabbit" ie. sees the chick with the rabbit tattoo and decides to go to the bar after all. He meets Trinity for the first time. In that scene she whispers to him through the center channel while Rob Zombie is blasting on the mains.

Now, that's a recipe for disaster and if you've ever seen the movie maybe you know the exact scene I'm talking about. It's a good test of your center channel's dispersion.

My old center speakers were an M-T-M design. That's a two way speaker, two midranges and one tweeter in the middle laid out side by side by side.

Usually, that's just a poor design. You want to avoid if you can afford to. This is why MTM center channel speakers are almost always cheaper than the way they "should" be designed which is a proper three way speaker with tweeter atop a midrange with woofers on either side. Or just use another front/main speaker as your centner.

Of course the above paragraph paints with a broad brush, there are always exceptions.

If you look at the speaker line from most manufacturers the MTM is almost always much cheaper. You have to really step up to get something better.

The trouble with MTM is an inherent difficulty with lobing. Lobing is a problem with the dispersion of sound as it radiates outward from in front of the speaker.

I honestly can't get any more detailed than that but it's a common problem. I went out and replaced my 15 lb MTM speaker with a beefy 45 lb three way speaker and the difference is night and day.

I can now hear Trinity loud and clear. No longer am I boosting the midrange during movies and then cranking it back down when the action really starts up. I know how annoying that is.

Wayde
Wayde is offline  
post #23 of 35 Old 06-09-06, 03:33 PM
Darrel Hawthorne
Inactive
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Surround Speakers?

Hey Wayde,
Quote:
" Man what do you say to something like that"? So your going to save the world.....man , what a mind job !"
Yes I do know that movie. LOL

I would be running one of my Silver Iris 15" Coaxials as my center, That's why I need to locate it behind the screen. The ideal set up for me would be to run a trio of these across the front as L-C-R .

Quote:
So , you think that's air your breathing?
Darrel
 
post #24 of 35 Old 06-09-06, 03:41 PM
Senior Shackster
 
Wayde's Avatar
Wayde
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Waterloo ON, Canada
Posts: 539
Re: Surround Speakers?

Quote:
Darrel Hawthorne wrote:
Yes I do know that movie. LOL


Darrel
It's a classic! I love the first one, didn't care for the second so I didn't bother seeing the third. The first is a perfect standalone story.

A forum survey on DVDTalk once asked what your first DVD purchase was. I should start that one here in the DVD forum.

The Matrix was head and shoulders the most popular "first" DVD purchase.

Wayde
Wayde is offline  
post #25 of 35 Old 06-09-06, 03:45 PM
Moderator Emeritus
 
Ayreonaut's Avatar
Naut
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 606
Re: Surround Speakers?

Quote:
Darrel Hawthorne wrote:
...I have noticed that on some recordings it seemed like they skimped on the dialog being sent to the mains...
On most recievers (including mine) when the Center Channel is set to "none" the CC information is split and added to both the L & R channels. The information should not be lost.

My L & R speakers are pretty close together because my TV is in a corner (living room considerations). My TV is also in an armoire. I have a matching CC speaker, but I haven't been using it because it just doesn't sound great above my TV in the armoire. (And its M-T-M, maybe that makes it worse.) I get a rock solid phantom center from my mains, and the dialog is quite clear. I actually prefer the phantom to the speaker being over the TV.

We are the Shack. Existence as you know it is over.
We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own.
You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.
Ayreonaut is offline  
post #26 of 35 Old 06-09-06, 03:54 PM
Darrel Hawthorne
Inactive
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Surround Speakers?

Hey Ayreonaut,

Quote:
On most recievers (including mine) when the Center Channel is set to "none" the CC information is split and added to both the L & R channels. The information should not be lost.
I do not have a receiver picked out yet. I am sure having this feature would be a big help.
I am running a flea powered SET amp ( Don't laugh)

I try and remember to set up the DVD for 2.1 whenever it's available.....
Thanks
Darrel
post #27 of 35 Old 06-09-06, 06:44 PM
HTS Senior Moderator
 
nova's Avatar
Mark
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Northern Utah
Posts: 5,423
My System
Re: Surround Speakers?

Quote:
Darrel Hawthorne wrote:
I would be running one of my Silver Iris 15" Coaxials as my center, That's why I need to locate it behind the screen. The ideal set up for me would be to run a trio of these across the front as L-C-R .
Darrel
Do it, do it, do it,....

Mark
nova is offline  
post #28 of 35 Old 06-11-06, 03:11 PM
Senior Shackster
Russell
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Cambridge, UK
Posts: 142
Re: Surround Speakers?

Quote:
Darrel Hawthorne wrote:
So, Do you use your center channel ?
I am seriously thinking I could very well live without it.. The phantom center stereo image is so strong and lucid , I doubt that the addition of yet another sound source would be necessary or even welcome....
We are many months away from actually moving the projector down to the theatre room, so I am basically watching movies in a well treated, dedicated 2 channel audio room. Possible not something I should get used to.....LOL
I suspect that my theatre will be much more challenging to get to sound this good..
I do use my center. I tried using a phantom because the position the center is currently in is not ideal. But I found that off axis, the speech wasn't locked to the screen in the same way. Secondly, it meant loosing a 120w channel and I like it quite loud. Thirdly, in my system at least, it just wasn't as clear without it.

Quote:
Darrel Hawthorne wrote:
Hearing program material outside the plane of the front speakers is very common in high end 2 channel setups. It is also very recording specific and room dependent. Getting sounds to appear to come from a point behind you ( without surrounds) is also possible but indeed less common. This to us, is what separates the men from the boy's..... 3D Holographic imaging is one of my primary focuses in 2 channel playback.
Darrel
Indeed I'am quite familiar the imaging capabilities of serious 2 channel setups. A friend of mine reviews for TNT Audio and his system is a serious reality check for how far behind multichannel audio is in many respects. He often comments on my restricted soundstage when listening to CD. He is still stunned by the solidity of panned effects though, as even the best 2 channel setups just can't make a sound hang in mid air over you.

Russell
russ.will is offline  
post #29 of 35 Old 06-13-06, 04:30 PM
Senior Shackster
 
Darren's Avatar
Darren
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Washington
Posts: 570
Re: Surround Speakers?

Hi Darrel,

I'm using GR-Research AV1RS http://www.gr-research.com/kits/av1rs.htm, a fairly uniqe design which I find to be very good. I used to have direct radiating but thses are much better, the effects aren't localized and are much more natural sounding.
Darren is offline  
post #30 of 35 Old 06-13-06, 08:58 PM
Darrel Hawthorne
Inactive
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Surround Speakers?

Hey Darren,
That's an interesting design.
Looks like a pretty simple build....
Do you run two or four? Could they be inverted and located close to the ceiling? Or both above and below?

These could be a fun DIY project.
Thanks for sharing
Darrel
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
speakers , surround

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now




PLEASE COMPLETE ALL REQUIRED FIELDS BELOW... THANKS!

REQUIRED FIELDS ON THIS PAGE
YOU MUST COMPLETE ALL OF THESE

Username
Password
Confirm Password
Email Address
Confirm Email Address
Random Question
Random Question #2




User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
PLEASE READ BELOW PRIOR TO ENTERING AN EMAIL ADDRESS!

ATTENTION!

YOU MUST ACTIVATE YOUR ACCOUNT!

Activation requires you reply to an email we will send you after you register... if you do not reply to this email, you will not be able to view certain areas of the forum or certain images... nor will you be able download software.

AN INVALID EMAIL ADDRESS WILL CAUSE YOUR ACCOUNT TO BE DELETED!

See our banned email list here: Banned Email List

We DO NOT respond to spamcop, boxtrapper and spamblocker emails... please add @hometheatershack DOT com to your whitelist prior to registering or you will get nowhere on your registration.


Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML is not allowed!
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 


For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome