HSU Research VTF-3 MK5 HP Discussion Thread - Page 2 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

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post #11 of 67 Old 07-09-15, 07:52 AM Thread Starter
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Re: HSU Research VTF-3 MK5 HP Discussion Thread

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post #12 of 67 Old 07-09-15, 08:45 AM
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Re: HSU Research VTF-3 MK5 HP Discussion Thread

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Even those two might not prove to be an issue. The reason I put the word "potential" in parenthesis before is because they may be of no consequence. Bear in mind those are close mic'ed measurements, so they reflect the raw output from the sub. Due to room interactions the response will be vastly different at the seating positions, so those peaks could actually become a null for some. Additionally, most people use some manner of room EQ so you can expect whatever remains to be tamed.

There is a bit of a misconception that a billiard table flat measured response is necessary, but that's really not the case. Sure, you don't want it bouncing all over the place, with 20dB gaps, but some "ripple" isn't really anything to be terribly concerned with. Bear in mind that no matter what the manufacturer does from the beginning the room will affect the output greatly, so all that careful tuning may be for naught in the long run. The other downside is headroom; depending upon how much wattage it takes to program the DSP to achieve a flat response there may be little left over for dynamic swings recorded in the source material. These charts infer HSU didn't use up a lot of amplifier power on the final output response, which if true has the advantage of allowing the sub to act on those dynamics. Based upon what my ears heard I suspect that's the case; the VTF-3 didn't want for headroom, so as the intensity of the soundtrack went up and down the sub was able to handle it.

I agree. My HSU has never shown strain. Although I haven't tried to push it either and play 16hz at 120db which I doubt it could do.

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post #13 of 67 Old 07-18-15, 02:14 PM Thread Starter
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Re: HSU Research VTF-3 MK5 HP Discussion Thread

While doing measurements on two upcoming review units I noticed an anomaly that caused be to do some investigating. When concluded I came to realize that something is probably amiss with my microphone because the HSU - and the other two units I just measured - all have the same abnormal hump at 23Hz. Because of that I have added the following caveat to the Measurements section...

Please disregard the bump at 23Hz in both the frequency response charts and spectrographs. I've identified a potential issue with the microphone which is most likely causing it. The native response of the subwoofer does not exhibit that tendency.

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post #14 of 67 Old 07-22-15, 10:38 AM
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Re: HSU Research VTF-3 MK5 HP Discussion Thread

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Even those two might not prove to be an issue. The reason I put the word "potential" in parenthesis before is because they may be of no consequence. Bear in mind those are close mic'ed measurements, so they reflect the raw output from the sub. Due to room interactions the response will be vastly different at the seating positions, so those peaks could actually become a null for some. Additionally, most people use some manner of room EQ so you can expect whatever remains to be tamed.
I can agree that they might not prove to be an issue, if your room acoustics happen to present a null at the LP for the same frequency that the sub produces a spike/resonance (at the listening position).
However, isn't it just as likely that the room acoustics could present a node (or peak) at this frequency presenting a combined spike beyond the capability of any standard EQ system to tame (assuming you have an EQ system)?

Wouldn't it be better to have a sub that did not have such an issue with it's raw output so you are not betting on the room and EQ to fix it?

As for a flat FR for raw sub output, I agree completely. The ideal is to have a roll off that matches room gain so the final FR at the LP is reasonably close to flat. But room gain is somewhat predictable.
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post #15 of 67 Old 07-22-15, 11:13 AM Thread Starter
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Re: HSU Research VTF-3 MK5 HP Discussion Thread

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I can agree that they might not prove to be an issue, if your room acoustics happen to present a null at the LP for the same frequency that the sub produces a spike/resonance (at the listening position).
However, isn't it just as likely that the room acoustics could present a node (or peak) at this frequency presenting a combined spike beyond the capability of any standard EQ system to tame (assuming you have an EQ system)?
Yup, the room could influence the output in either direction so FR peaks might increase or decrease. Most room EQ systems can tone down massive peaks though, whereas they can only boost nulls by a few dB's. In essence, they can tame a "hot" frequency pretty well.


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Wouldn't it be better to have a sub that did not have such an issue with it's raw output so you are not betting on the room and EQ to fix it?
An argument could be made either way. Frankly, I'm not certain there's a right answer because for sure there will never be a consensus among audiophiles. For me, the only thing that matters is what my ears can hear. If the end result gives me what I want I don't concern myself with how the manufacturer went about achieving it. That's just me though.

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post #16 of 67 Old 07-22-15, 03:11 PM
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Re: HSU Research VTF-3 MK5 HP Discussion Thread

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Yup, the room could influence the output in either direction so FR peaks might increase or decrease. Most room EQ systems can tone down massive peaks though, whereas they can only boost nulls by a few dB's. In essence, they can tame a "hot" frequency pretty well.
Good point; Audyssey can be very effective at reducing peak nodes!
However, based on the measurements, I would be reluctant to recommend this sub to anyone wanting to use it in a system without EQ.

Did you find out any more about the problem with the mic?
Any chance that is the cause of the ringing at the other frequencies as well? I haven't noticed it so bad on any other subs you have measured and noticed that the Rythmik F8's have some of the same thing going on. With the E15HP, the servo seemed to counteract any ringing, I know the F8 is a step down, but am surprised the F8's would perform so poorly in this regard being sealed with servo!

23.5Hz is not the best place for measurement error with subs. Hope they fix you up with a quick and easy solution!
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post #17 of 67 Old 07-22-15, 05:18 PM Thread Starter
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Re: HSU Research VTF-3 MK5 HP Discussion Thread

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Did you find out any more about the problem with the mic?
Not yet. I tried a few other subs I have lying around here and they all exhibit the same bump. The XTZ system has its own tone generator - it doesn't rely upon any test discs, which was one of the benefits as far as I was concerned - so the issue could be there as well. I did update the software to the latest version, but that didn't make any noticeable difference.

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Any chance that is the cause of the ringing at the other frequencies as well?
It's not impossible, but I tend to doubt there is an affect on any other frequencies. What first caught my eye was when I saw the same hump whether the VTF-3 was configured for acoustic suspension or bass reflex. I thought "that's pretty unusual", but since I never had an issue in the 3-4 years I've been using the XTZ system I didn't think much of it. Then I measured the F8's and saw the same thing, and that's when I realized something was amiss.

My next review will be on the JTR Captivator S1 so I tested that one and sure enough, the same bump shows up there as well. I won't publish that review with the anomaly though - I'll figure out something before I post it.

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post #18 of 67 Old 07-22-15, 07:34 PM
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Re: HSU Research VTF-3 MK5 HP Discussion Thread

Have the Hsu and Rythmik shipped out? If not, any chance of holding them until you can get new data?
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post #19 of 67 Old 08-03-15, 05:57 AM
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Re: HSU Research VTF-3 MK5 HP Discussion Thread

I'm very interested in the VTF-3 MK5, seems like a lot of bang for the buck. My viewing/listening room is roughly 1300 cubic feet, my use is probably a 60-40 split between music and movies. Is the VTF-3 MK5 an adequate choice for this size of space? Other recommendations in this price range?
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post #20 of 67 Old 08-03-15, 07:50 AM Thread Starter
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Re: HSU Research VTF-3 MK5 HP Discussion Thread

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I'm very interested in the VTF-3 MK5, seems like a lot of bang for the buck. My viewing/listening room is roughly 1300 cubic feet, my use is probably a 60-40 split between music and movies. Is the VTF-3 MK5 an adequate choice for this size of space? Other recommendations in this price range?
The room I did that review in is 50% larger by cubic volume and the VTF-3 did remarkably well. You will have no issues whatsoever.

With regards to competitive options... this particular thread is for discussions about my review or the VTF-3. If you would like to explore other choices you should start a new thread. That way all the answers will be focused on your situation.

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