Elac Subwoofers - S10EQ and S12EQ - Page 3 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

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post #21 of 29 Old 04-10-17, 11:07 AM
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Re: Elac Subwoofers - S10EQ and S12EQ

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As far as voicing, are you telling me that if Barbara Streisand and Tony Bennet sing the exact same note that their voices will sound exactly the same? The same applies to voicing of subs, they all have their own character.

And your own example just made the point that while one can make intelligent statements (which I readily agree with) about a sub (or any other part of a sound system), that only applies to quantitative differences, not qualitative differences. Now lets get back to the original topic and try to help the original poster with useful information.
tonvb is actually correct; subwoofers are not voiced to match speakers. They may share aesthetics, but competently engineered speakers and subwoofers will work in a mix-n-match scenario. Paul Jones is definitely a competent engineer, so there's no way he would have done otherwise.

With regards to your "intelligent statements" and "useful information" comments... you should perhaps heed your own advice, as your combative and argumentative tone are not doing the OP - our yourself - any favors. Please make sure all your posts are aligned with the forums rules.
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post #22 of 29 Old 04-10-17, 11:12 AM
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Re: Elac Subwoofers - S10EQ and S12EQ

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As far as voicing, are you telling me that if Barbara Streisand and Tony Bennet sing the exact same note that their voices will sound exactly the same? The same applies to voicing of subs, they all have their own character.


This topic maybe for another thread but this statement is not true. If you can hear Barbara Streisand through a subwoofer, the setup is completely wrong. You may hear Tony Bennett, but almost 100% of his voice will be coming from, and effected by the voicing of the speakers. Even a great deal of instruments that are in the subwoofer frequency range are actually heard in the upper harmonic ranges. Unplug your mains and just listen to your sub alone. You might be surprised. The truth is, subs aren't voiced. They DO have characteristics of their own compared to others but they're related to damping, Q factor, extension and output.
As for the software, it looks pretty powerful in the demo, and even quite effective. I've even read a few fairly nice reviews of the system. Many of us however prefer the tried and true and because of that, it seems dubious that real subwoofer setup can be reduced to two measurements and a couple button pushes. My personal opinion is that the microphones in phones and tablets are just not accurate enough and maybe I'm all wet, but I will still trust the hardware that I know is built for the job. I also think deleting the manual controls is a poor decision, and for 800 bucks, I'll keep shopping...
but that's just me.
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post #23 of 29 Old 04-10-17, 12:15 PM
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Re: Elac Subwoofers - S10EQ and S12EQ

I wasn't speaking in terms of engineered voicing of speakers, simply in terms of the inevitable difference in voice brought on by different damping factors, voice coil inertias and so on resulting in different timbres.

I would guess Andrew Jones, while designing for a broad application base for mixing and matching, would nevertheless have preference for a particular range of timbre, hence even unintentionally or not, voicing for a similar sound to the Uni-Fi and Debut lines which I can attest to being quite similar as I auditioned both for about a month before deciding on the UF5's. All speakers are voiced differently, with different designers having different preferences.

As far as combative, I apologize, but it's my natural state in discussions which I try to control but often fail. It's a result of having 9 siblings, all of us becoming overachievers in different fields, so we learned at an early age to be aggressive, or not be heard. Again, my apologies, but I mean no harm, and certainly no insult. I pretty much use the same name on all the boards where I contribute and have never had a problem other than having other users request a bit less forwardness, which I mostly respond to. Thanks for pointing this out.
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post #24 of 29 Old 04-11-17, 12:10 AM
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Re: Elac Subwoofers - S10EQ and S12EQ

Well, forgive my misunderstanding, but it seemed like that's what you were saying. Quote:
"Now this is a bit unfair to the SVS because the Elac sub is voiced to match my Elac towers."
While this statement is not true, I will concede to the differences in what we're both saying is, semantics. By that I mean, you're saying "voicing" and I'm saying tuning the sub to a certain Q, which is not timbre, and which has zero relevance to how the mains are voiced. A lower Q system will be well damped, and exhibit better driver control and generally better pitch definition and linearity. A higher Q system will be loose flabby and boomy by comparison, but neither version would have what's considered voicing. In any case, I agree Andrew Jones likely has a target goal in meeting budget and performance constraints while still striving for a good product. Being the oldest of 6, I understand competitiveness, but that's different than abrasiveness. I won't speak for the other guys but, for me, apology accepted. Hope you don't think I'm on a witch hunt.
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post #25 of 29 Old 04-11-17, 12:58 PM
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Re: Elac Subwoofers - S10EQ and S12EQ

I'm sorry, but this will be my last post. What you are essentially saying is that all subs sound the same. Maybe in an ideal world, but this isn't an ideal world and all designers have to make design choices. And those choices affect the voicing of speakers AND even subs.

I'm not going to get into the technical reasons beyond what I mentioned already. Wiki has plenty of info and links. You might want to start with damping.

Have a nice day folks. I don't have time to spend arguing over points, I consider, rightly or wrongly, self evident. I came here to help someone out, no more, no less.
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post #26 of 29 Old 04-11-17, 01:47 PM
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Re: Elac Subwoofers - S10EQ and S12EQ

First, apologies to my fellow shacksters. I didn't intend to take this thread into the rhubarb. Sorry. Second, I'm not saying all subs sound the same, quite the contrary, and as you suggested, I have mentioned damping more than once so not sure what that point was. Your lengthy post about evaluating and testing the elac and svs was well done and interesting, and I believe very helpful to the op. Maybe it seems I pulled something out of context and ran with it, and but I felt it was worth addressing. Again. Maybe its own thread would've been more appt. The guys here are a nice bunch, and I think most would say I fit that description. I try to be polite, and respectful so whatever tone you imagined when reading my posts(not speaking for others) was intended as friendly. However, if you want to go eat worms...
I'm done.
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post #27 of 29 Old 04-11-17, 01:48 PM
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Re: Elac Subwoofers - S10EQ and S12EQ

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pageman99 wrote: View Post
I'm sorry, but this will be my last post. What you are essentially saying is that all subs sound the same.
No, no one has ever said that. What we are saying is that "if" the sub is manufactured properly and its made by a reputable company it will preform well with any speakers. Out of the box no sub will be perfect with in room response but after fine tuning it properly and placing it in the correct location you will only be limited by its output ability.
Saying its voiced to match certain speakers is no different than saying one sub is more musical than another. Neither are relevant if the sub is designed correctly.

Home theater:
Onkyo 805, Yamaha YDP2006EQ, Samson Servo 600 amp
3 EV Sentry 500 monitors across the front, 4 Mission 762i's Surrounds, SVS PB13U sub, Panasonic BDT220, Harmony 1100, Nintendo WiiU
Panasonic PT-AE8000 on a 120" 2,35:1 fixed screen

Living room system:
Sherwood/Newcastle R972, Mission 765's, SVS SBS02's, A/D/S MS3u sub, Yamaha YDG2030EQ
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post #28 of 29 Old 05-23-17, 07:53 AM
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Re: Elac Subwoofers - S10EQ and S12EQ

I believe that subwoofers are not inherently designed to work with "Some" speakers and not others. That would entirely defeat the purpose of a subwoofer, which by definition is designed to work below the general frequencies of the mains and therefore would not be voiced to match....well anything.This is especially true considering the enormous range of speakers out there from mini monitors to full range monster speakers.

Also all subs cannot sound the same, they are not all of equal value nor are they designed to all be the same, small, medium and large do not equate to having the same sonic sensibilities.

Good Listening

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post #29 of 29 Old 02-25-18, 12:45 PM
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Re: Elac Subwoofers - S10EQ and S12EQ

I appreciate the first person/hands on opinion immensely. Thanks for your contribution, it was thoughtful and informative.

I've been wondering about the Elac speaker line in general since i read the CES Jan, 2016 review and a few months later read a Stereophile review all heaping praise on Mr Jones' entry level speakers auditioning on that day. Given, these are not the $35K Elac Concentro speakers but i wonder what physical attributes in the $250 price range speakers make these diminutive relatives sound so musical.

Is it voice coil materials choices, under hung/overhung, flat wound square wound, copper, aluminum, beryllium copper, magnet structure/materials, cabinet and cabinet damping materials... all driver and speaker voicing techniques to say nothing of crossover materials choices.

The above info etc etc is only the beginning but i'm still not sure the Elac subs voicing is apparent or as important as the convenience of digital sound EQ even if only thru an calibrated mic, there is a noted improvement. Could the improvement be improved upon..., blah, blah, blah. Even if there is a notable voicing/sound characteristic attributable to the Elac Subs the real question is the synergy of speakers, source material and amplification..., sum effect after compromises...

With poorly designed, implemented and utilized in the real world electronic equipment there is technology enough to eq a system into presenting satisfactory musical quality but requires readjusting for every new bit of music, theater etc etc because the compromises are too great. These days we do not have this particular problem. Today, Home Theater and Home Stereo electronics are so well understood and implemented the real question is price point, aesthetics and convenience..., in my humble opinion.

I don't proof read..., sorry for the errors and/or readability

We believe everything we tell ourselves..., don't we??

Last edited by Gregr; 02-25-18 at 12:54 PM. Reason: reality check
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