Kind of unusual setup... - Page 2 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

 9Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #11 of 21 Old 09-11-19, 06:10 PM
HTS Moderator
Reviewer
 
theJman's Avatar
Jim
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: New Joisey
Posts: 3,258
My System
Re: Kind of unusual setup...

Quote:
Mazza wrote: View Post
I am not a fan of center channel speakers, their horizontal driver arrangement is highly sub-optimal.
I'm not sure that's necessarily the case; while horizontal alignment does present some challenges, "highly" sub-optimal seems like a bit of an overstatement. If it was really all that bad why does virtually every speaker manufacturer on the planet make scores of different models around the same alignment? Logic suggests there would be more than a handful of outliers producing centers with something 'better', if for no other reason than to tout their superiority. Packaging does play a part of course - after all, how many people have the ability to use a tower for a center? - but that certainly isn't the only reason. What's truly flawed are phantom centers. Given the aesthetic benefits of using no center you would think that option would be chosen by more people, but one listen and it quickly becomes apparent how bad that arrangement sounds. Despite the potential difficulties that horizontal alignments might cause they seem to be used 1000x more than phantoms, so there's got to be something involved.

-Jim

If you take yourself too seriously, expect me to do the exact opposite
theJman is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #12 of 21 Old 09-11-19, 06:59 PM
Shackster
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 14
Re: Kind of unusual setup...

horizontal drivers are NOT the problem. The problemis having a midrange driver on each side of a tweeter laid out horizontally with the 2 midrange drivers outputting the same sound over the same frequency range.

There are several simple ways to eliminate the problem with comb filtering when there are midrange drivers on both sides of a tweeter.

Quite a few models avoid the whole comb filtering issue by removing midrange audio from one of the 2 mid-woofers by employing separate crossovers for the 2 mid-woofers. Example: Tweeter operates from 2500-20,000. One midwoofer operates from 2500 Hz down to, say 50 Hz. The crossover for the second midwoofer operates over 40 Hz to 150 Hz. Problem 100% solved by not allowing midrange frequencies to be reproduced by both woofers.

Another design choice also stops the comb filtering by placing a tweeter above a midrange driver in the center of the center channel speaker with a woofer to each side. Since the woofers do not reproduce midrange frequencies, there is no comb filtering issue.

Finally, if you have a center channel with a center tweeter flanked by midwoofers and the comb filtering bothers you, rotate the center channel speaker 90 degrees so it is vertical.

Comb filtering changes sound in the horizontal direstion as you move left/right of center when the MTM driver arrangement is horizontal while verticle dispersion is good. Rotate the center 90 degrees so the drivers are vertical, you get smooth horizontal dispersion and comb filtering in the vertical axis that can change the sound as you stand or sit.

So like everything else in home theater... every design has strengths and weaknesses. You typically cannot dismiss a product category without understanding the background.
Da Wiz is offline  
post #13 of 21 Old 09-11-19, 07:54 PM Thread Starter
Shackster
Dave
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Swartz Creek MI
Posts: 28
Re: Kind of unusual setup...

Good discussion, and I agree about the Bose cubes (Bose: Buy Other Sound Equipment). I'll try to dig up some info about the Dahlquist bi-amp system. Thank you, fellas. I've got a lot to learn about home theater. I'm solid in two channel stereo and very solid in guitars, tube guitar amps, and effects, but I'm new to home theater.
premiumplus is offline  
 
post #14 of 21 Old 09-11-19, 07:57 PM
Shackster
 
BP1Fanatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 65
Thumbs up Re: Kind of unusual setup...

Quote:
Hornblower64 wrote: View Post
I prefer L/C/R speakers to be identical.
I agree!
Attached Thumbnails
Kind of unusual setup...-20181231_231341.jpg  

Kind of unusual setup...-20190215_214649.jpg  

Kind of unusual setup...-20190215_214555.jpg  

Mazza likes this.

Basshead 4 Life
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.


Sony XBR65X900E
Sony STR-DN1080
Sony PS4
Quantum Access Fanless Mini PC Stick
Wow! Ultra Cable
8 x Rockville SPG88 DJ PA Speakers
Dayton Audio SA1000 Sub Amp
Kicker 08S15L74 sub in a T-TQWT (negative flare tapped horn)
BP1Fanatic is offline  
post #15 of 21 Old 09-11-19, 09:56 PM
Elite Shackster
 
willis7469's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: minnesota
Posts: 3,946
My System
Re: Kind of unusual setup...

Quote:
BP1Fanatic wrote: View Post
I agree!


Is that center behind the tv? Canít imagine that works tonally or specially. I imagine like talking to someone with a plate in front of their mouth lol.
powerlifter405 likes this.
willis7469 is online now  
post #16 of 21 Old 09-12-19, 08:17 AM Thread Starter
Shackster
Dave
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Swartz Creek MI
Posts: 28
Re: Kind of unusual setup...

Quote:
willis7469 wrote: View Post
The center is mainly responsible for carrying dialog but also a lot of other screen info. IMO, phantom center is always comprised and if youíre off axis(like anybody NOT in the sweet spot), phantom image collapses. Find a good quality CC speaker. The JBL you mentioned could work, but imo itís important to match the front 3 at least as much as you can, ideally 3 of the same, towers or , or at least the matching in the same series. The JBLís(assuming you have a pair) would likely make a good surround pair. FWIW, my whole bed layer is JBL.
Also, toss the bose cubes out onto the sidewalk with a free sign. They will only hold back the rest of the system.
I tried to find out some more information on your mains as whenever someone says ďI donít need a subwooferĒ, itís always an interesting conversation. In any case, I could not find anything definitive. Do you have any links to literature, or pics?
Here's literature on the active crossover and subs:
Crossover: https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_li...t/dq-lp1.shtml

Subwoofers: I couldn't find much info on the DQ-1W subwoofer. It's a 13" (right...not 12") driver in a sealed cabinet large enough to support the main DQ-10 Phased Array speakers.

System info: https://stereonomono.blogspot.com/20...ist-dq-10.html

They sound great bi-amped, and as I mention in the OP I'm driving them with two White Oak modified, completely rebuilt Phase Linear 700b amps. I got the Yamaha RX-V685 receiver up and running and it sounds GREAT through the L/R preamp outs to my main stereo system. I'm systematically replacing the Bose cube speakers...
premiumplus is offline  
post #17 of 21 Old 09-12-19, 11:06 AM
Elite Shackster
 
willis7469's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: minnesota
Posts: 3,946
My System
Re: Kind of unusual setup...

Quote:
premiumplus wrote: View Post
Here's literature on the active crossover and subs:

Crossover: https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_li...t/dq-lp1.shtml



Subwoofers: I couldn't find much info on the DQ-1W subwoofer. It's a 13" (right...not 12") driver in a sealed cabinet large enough to support the main DQ-10 Phased Array speakers.



System info: https://stereonomono.blogspot.com/20...ist-dq-10.html



They sound great bi-amped, and as I mention in the OP I'm driving them with two White Oak modified, completely rebuilt Phase Linear 700b amps. I got the Yamaha RX-V685 receiver up and running and it sounds GREAT through the L/R preamp outs to my main stereo system. I'm systematically replacing the Bose cube speakers...


Cool. Will read. I totally get the ďsystematicĒ approach. Lol I think WAF is stupid, but we all have some if donít we.
willis7469 is online now  
post #18 of 21 Old 09-12-19, 01:47 PM
New Member
David Bernhagen
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: California
Posts: 3
My System
Re: Kind of unusual setup...

I spotted a single DQ-10 on that auction site for $99. On the floor, tilted up, as a center channel? The bass balance will change slightly with it being closer to the floor, but that's easy to fix. Just a thought. The going price for DQ-10s seems to be $200-800/pr., depending on condition and demand at the moment, of course.
premiumplus likes this.

Last edited by Hornblower64; 09-12-19 at 02:36 PM.
Hornblower64 is offline  
post #19 of 21 Old 09-13-19, 07:40 AM Thread Starter
Shackster
Dave
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Swartz Creek MI
Posts: 28
Re: Kind of unusual setup...

Quote:
Hornblower64 wrote: View Post
I spotted a single DQ-10 on that auction site for $99. On the floor, tilted up, as a center channel? The bass balance will change slightly with it being closer to the floor, but that's easy to fix. Just a thought. The going price for DQ-10s seems to be $200-800/pr., depending on condition and demand at the moment, of course.
Thanks for the tip, but I don't have room to put it in the middle of the other two DQ-10s. There are two French Doors that open to an adjoining room that I always leave open. So the TV is offset to the left a bit but even then it takes up half of one side of a door. Like I mentioned, it's an unusual room...So my center channel speaker sits behind the grill of the left hand DQ-10, which locates it slightly to the right of center in relation to the TV.
The Yamaha auto-EQ system reported back that I had out of phase issues with four of my speakers (And I checked their electrical phase prior to installation...they were all correctly phased); the left, center, right, and right surround. I reversed the phase on these and the Auto EQ checked out okay. So I must have phasing issues / comb filtering going on in this room. It's crazy. I wish there was a way I could show an overhead view of the walls and area coverage of the room, you'd laugh and say "Good luck, man!"

I do have it sounding good right now, and when I kick on the main stereo for a movie it's really nice. I'm getting 116dB peaks at my couch, and it's clean too. A thunderclap sounds and feels like thunder overhead. Voices are natural, right inside my head. I'm pretty happy at this point but I've still got two Bose cubes to dispose of. Trying to figure a way to fit my JBL L-36 speakers in next to the huge Dahlquist systems.
premiumplus is offline  
post #20 of 21 Old 09-14-19, 03:22 PM
Shackster
 
BP1Fanatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 65
Talking Re: Kind of unusual setup...

Quote:
willis7469 wrote: View Post
Is that center behind the tv? Canít imagine that works tonally or specially. I imagine like talking to someone with a plate in front of their mouth lol.
2 speakers behind the tv and voices sound like they coming straight out the actors' or anouncers' mouths.
Attached Thumbnails
Kind of unusual setup...-1568492428628123241919023490710.jpg  


Basshead 4 Life
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.


Sony XBR65X900E
Sony STR-DN1080
Sony PS4
Quantum Access Fanless Mini PC Stick
Wow! Ultra Cable
8 x Rockville SPG88 DJ PA Speakers
Dayton Audio SA1000 Sub Amp
Kicker 08S15L74 sub in a T-TQWT (negative flare tapped horn)
BP1Fanatic is offline  
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
kind , setup , unusual

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now




PLEASE COMPLETE ALL REQUIRED FIELDS BELOW... THANKS!

REQUIRED FIELDS ON THIS PAGE
YOU MUST COMPLETE ALL OF THESE

Username
Password
Confirm Password
Email Address
Confirm Email Address
Random Question
Random Question #2




User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
PLEASE READ BELOW PRIOR TO ENTERING AN EMAIL ADDRESS!

ATTENTION!

YOU MUST ACTIVATE YOUR ACCOUNT!

Activation requires you reply to an email we will send you after you register... if you do not reply to this email, you will not be able to view certain areas of the forum or certain images... nor will you be able download software.

AN INVALID EMAIL ADDRESS WILL CAUSE YOUR ACCOUNT TO BE DELETED!

See our banned email list here: Banned Email List

We DO NOT respond to spamcop, boxtrapper and spamblocker emails... please add @hometheatershack DOT com to your whitelist prior to registering or you will get nowhere on your registration.


Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML is not allowed!
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 


For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome