Home Theater Shack 2015 High-End Amplifier Evaluation Event Reporting and Discussion Thread - Page 6 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #51 of 250 Old 03-16-15, 11:25 AM
Elite Shackster
 
tesseract's Avatar
2 channel view
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 3,697
My System
Hey guys, a few things I'd like to add.

1. Yes, my results could be chalked up to chance.
2. 5 out of 7 is statistically significant and should not be ignored.
3. I admitted to fatigue at toward the end if the testing.
4. I did not start to miss until the end of the testing. My last few pairing evaluations took considerably more time due to this fatigue.
5. There is only so much time in the day and the group dedicated DAYS to this test, so we did the best we could with the time we had.
6. I feel that I could repeat this test and expect a similar outcome.
7. Each person used different, non standard methods to evaluate the pairings. This was probably the biggest deviation from control in the entire evaluation effort. I am not certain that a standardized method would be useful as we all hear differently and like different music.
8. Our sighted evaluations had better soundstage and imaging properties than the blinded, due to the bulky (but necessary) shrouding used to hide the amplifiers from view.
9. Audible differences in amplifiers are generally very small.
10. I have a favorite amplifier and will reveal that favorite after Leonard has crunched the numbers and posted the results.

"I left in love, in laughter, and in truth and wherever truth, love and laughter abide, I am there in spirit." - Bill Hicks
tesseract is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #52 of 250 Old 03-16-15, 11:39 AM
Elite Shackster
 
tonyvdb's Avatar
Tony
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Can
Posts: 15,054
My System
Re: Home Theater Shack 2015 High-End Amplifier Evaluation Event Reporting and Discussion Thread

Quote:
Talley wrote: View Post
I'm not wrong.... I know that they are found in the lower equipment but what I was saying is they are always found in the higher end stuff and are used as advertisement purposes. I know it shouldn't be, you can get a 2000w piltron toridal supply for 300 bucks and thats usually in the 2,000-5,000+ dollar amps.

and yes you get into the 900 dollar + onkyos and they have em. my comment was cheaper unit = sub 900 bucks and lower they don't TYPICALLY have them. maybe some of the emotivas do and thats where they stand out as price/value.

the Denon X5200 does not have one.
Lets take this discussion to a new posts so we dont derail this one. I have started one in the amplifier section

Home theater:
Onkyo 805, Yamaha YDP2006EQ, Samson Servo 600 amp
3 EV Sentry 500 monitors across the front, 4 Mission 762i's Surrounds, SVS PB13U sub, Panasonic BDT220, Harmony 1100, Nintendo WiiU
Panasonic PT-AE8000 on a 120" 2,35:1 fixed screen

Living room system:
Sherwood/Newcastle R972, Mission 765's, SVS SBS02's, A/D/S MS3u sub, Yamaha YDG2030EQ
Yamaha KX-393 Tape deck, CDC 805 CD changer, Panasonic BD60, Sony turntable PS-T20
Panasonic TC-P50ST60, HD-PVR & WDTV Live, Harmony 900

tonyvdb is offline  
post #53 of 250 Old 03-16-15, 01:07 PM
Senior Shackster
 
Blacklightning's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: edmonton AB
Posts: 462
My System
Re: Home Theater Shack 2015 High-End Amplifier Evaluation Event Reporting and Discussion Thread

Quote:
Talley wrote: View Post
Which is why all the higher end amps that have higher end costs have the big toroidal style transformers. My krell has a 1600w toroidal supply. cheaper units use standard transformer winding types. Or at least it's one of the differences I notice. does that make an audible difference... well who knows. The Denon tested has a normal non toriodal type transformer and that ended up falling last by the posts that was made?.... is that still true?
This is the reason I'm not upgrading my AVR as it has a toroidal transformer (Marantz SR8500).
I noticed that toroidal transformers are being used less and less. Technology keeps changing and the $ is the driving force. People are not being fooled into buying high priced equipment any more so cheap tech is being updated like crazy. I'm sure Marantz's top regular transformer can outperform my receive now but my brain will not let me change as I'm still brainwashed in the old school way.
Blacklightning is offline  
 
post #54 of 250 Old 03-16-15, 01:11 PM
Elite Shackster
 
Lumen's Avatar
Lou
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 2,261
My System
Re: Home Theater Shack 2015 High-End Amplifier Evaluation Event Reporting and Discussion Thread

Quote:
Talley wrote: View Post
Which is why all the higher end amps that have higher end costs have the big toroidal style transformers. My krell has a 1600w toroidal supply. cheaper units use standard transformer winding types. Or at least it's one of the differences I notice. does that make an audible difference... well who knows. The Denon tested has a normal non toriodal type transformer and that ended up falling last by the posts that was made?.... is that still true?
I doubt that, BY ITSELF, dropping in a toroidal transformer will transport any amp into "higher-end" territory. Aside from trendy parts replacement such as toroids or fast recovery diodes, it's a particular power supply's DESIGN that helps account for any possible audible differences. For example, a fancy transformer won't make up for poor ground return paths in the signal chain.

How concerned is our review panel with, say, circuit topology, premium parts, and signal transfer of WBT vs Cardas vs plastic binding posts? Perhaps they'll become curious as they endeavour to explain slight differences. But I doubt they'll delve into a full blown, deep-dive exploration.

My point is that an amp with or without a toroidal transformer is only as good as the rest of its design. And even as you said, there are bang-for-the-buck amps out there that give the "big boys" a hefty run for the money.
Lumen is offline  
post #55 of 250 Old 03-16-15, 01:12 PM
Elite Shackster
 
Lumen's Avatar
Lou
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 2,261
My System
Re: Home Theater Shack 2015 High-End Amplifier Evaluation Event Reporting and Discussion Thread

Quote:
tonyvdb wrote: View Post
Lets take this discussion to a new posts so we dont derail this one. I have started one in the amplifier section
My apologies, our posts crossed in the mail.
Lumen is offline  
post #56 of 250 Old 03-16-15, 02:11 PM
Elite Shackster
 
Savjac's Avatar
Jack
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Evansville, Indiana
Posts: 1,784
My System
Re: Home Theater Shack 2015 High-End Amplifier Evaluation Event Reporting and Discussion Thread

Quote:
AudiocRaver wrote: View Post
A question for your consideration:

When you have a typical get-together of family &/or friends over and you sit down together to enjoy a movie or some music on your system, how many of them typically care about and can appreciate really good sound quality?
Only One, and that is kind of sad really.

Good Listening

Jack

"For those who believe no proof is needed for those who don't believe no proof is possible"
Savjac is offline  
post #57 of 250 Old 03-16-15, 02:25 PM
Elite Shackster
 
Savjac's Avatar
Jack
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Evansville, Indiana
Posts: 1,784
My System
Re: Home Theater Shack 2015 High-End Amplifier Evaluation Event Reporting and Discussion Thread

Having been through this a time or a hundred, I am so glad you gents are doing this. I had a listening session this weekend and it was fun.
These types of get together s are never easy and will take repeated attempts but are always fun and educational. I look forward to your findings, whether they agree with mine or not.

Thank Y'all

Good Listening

Jack

"For those who believe no proof is needed for those who don't believe no proof is possible"
Savjac is offline  
post #58 of 250 Old 03-16-15, 04:46 PM
Plain ole user
 
lcaillo's Avatar
Tech Guru
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Gainesville, FL, USA
Posts: 11,121
Send a message via AIM to lcaillo
Re: Home Theater Shack 2015 High-End Amplifier Evaluation Event Reporting and Discussion Thread

Quote:
tonyvdb wrote: View Post
LOL yup this debate will never die

I do think it does show though that the differences are subtle at best. In normal listening conditions it probably would be even less noticeable.

Thanks for taking the time to do this guys
Phrases like "normal listening conditions" are filled with assumptions. Normal listening conditions for someone who cares are very different than your average consumer. This is what Wayne was getting at.




Looking for me, just google my username. I have used the same one for most sites for many years.
lcaillo is offline  
post #59 of 250 Old 03-16-15, 05:13 PM
Plain ole user
 
lcaillo's Avatar
Tech Guru
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Gainesville, FL, USA
Posts: 11,121
Send a message via AIM to lcaillo
Re: Home Theater Shack 2015 High-End Amplifier Evaluation Event Reporting and Discussion Thread

I think the point Tony is making is that not all expensive amps have torroidal transformers. They offer some advantages in terms of hum and magnetic fields, but for the same price (and probably less space) you can get more power from a traditional transformer.

Neither necessarily has much to do with the sound of an amp, other than perhaps not having enough power available, perhaps.




Looking for me, just google my username. I have used the same one for most sites for many years.
lcaillo is offline  
post #60 of 250 Old 03-16-15, 06:15 PM
Elite Shackster
 
Talley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Houston Tx
Posts: 1,295
Re: Home Theater Shack 2015 High-End Amplifier Evaluation Event Reporting and Discussion Thread

Quote:
lcaillo wrote: View Post
I think the point Tony is making is that not all expensive amps have torroidal transformers. They offer some advantages in terms of hum and magnetic fields, but for the same price (and probably less space) you can get more power from a traditional transformer.

Neither necessarily has much to do with the sound of an amp, other than perhaps not having enough power available, perhaps.
I'm steadily growing on this bolded part. Power power power... more power... cleaner output. I'm beginning to wonder if 125w all channels driven if that really should be like 400w each channel that the Emotiva XPR-5 can deliver.

I can literally sell my Krell and buy a new Emotiva XPR-5 for the same price. Hmm....

Master Electrician

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

XPA-7 & Krell Showcase 7 | XMC-1 | SVS Ultra Tower system | HSU VTF-15H MK2 | BenQ W1070 | Jamestown 135"
Talley is offline  
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
2015 , amplifier , discussion , evaluation , event , highend , home , reporting , shack , theater , thread

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now




PLEASE COMPLETE ALL REQUIRED FIELDS BELOW... THANKS!

REQUIRED FIELDS ON THIS PAGE
YOU MUST COMPLETE ALL OF THESE

Username
Password
Confirm Password
Email Address
Confirm Email Address
Random Question
Random Question #2




User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
PLEASE READ BELOW PRIOR TO ENTERING AN EMAIL ADDRESS!

ATTENTION!

YOU MUST ACTIVATE YOUR ACCOUNT!

Activation requires you reply to an email we will send you after you register... if you do not reply to this email, you will not be able to view certain areas of the forum or certain images... nor will you be able download software.

AN INVALID EMAIL ADDRESS WILL CAUSE YOUR ACCOUNT TO BE DELETED!

See our banned email list here: Banned Email List

We DO NOT respond to spamcop, boxtrapper and spamblocker emails... please add @hometheatershack DOT com to your whitelist prior to registering or you will get nowhere on your registration.


Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML is not allowed!
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 


For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome