Gain Structure for Home Theater Discussion Thread - Page 8 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #71 of 85 Old 03-16-19, 03:07 PM
Shackster
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 9
Quote:
Wayne A. Pflughaupt wrote: View Post
Please use this thread for any comments or discussion about my article Gain Structure for Home Theater.

Regards,
Wayne
Im quoting you to hopfully notify you since this thread was last active 3 years ago.
djcreative1 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #72 of 85 Old 03-17-19, 09:33 AM Thread Starter
HTS Senior Moderator
 
Wayne A. Pflughaupt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Corpus Christi, Texas
Posts: 9,166
Send a message via Yahoo to Wayne A. Pflughaupt
Re: Gain Structure for Home Theater Discussion Thread

Hey dj,

Are you using outboard amplifiers in your system? If so, what make and model number?

Regards,
Wayne



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

Wayne A. Pflughaupt is offline  
post #73 of 85 Old 03-17-19, 09:42 AM
Shackster
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 9
Wayne!! Thank god your still on here!!! Yes. My receiver is a pioneer vsx-519v and that sub out is run via an rca y spliter to a crown xs900 amplifier.

Last edited by djcreative1; 03-17-19 at 04:06 PM. Reason: Grammer
djcreative1 is offline  
 
post #74 of 85 Old 03-17-19, 09:36 PM Thread Starter
HTS Senior Moderator
 
Wayne A. Pflughaupt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Corpus Christi, Texas
Posts: 9,166
Send a message via Yahoo to Wayne A. Pflughaupt
Re: Gain Structure for Home Theater Discussion Thread

Quote:
djcreative1 wrote: View Post
I read your thread on gain structure. Thank you for the information. I have two questions. In both finding out your avr's clean output and setting your amps gains you say to turn your subwoofers trim up all the way. However, you say "Adjust the AVR’s subwoofer trim level to the maximum setting" in one paragraph and "There’s no need to adjust the AVR’s subwoofer trim, as it will be automatically reduced to “clean voltage” when the AVR’s master volume is turned down to the “clean voltage” setting" in the next. This confuses me.
I was referring to the difference in level with the main channels between the absolute maximum output vs. the maximum clean output, which will be less. I gave the example of 6.5 volts max vs. 5.5 volts clean, which is a 19% difference. For the subwoofer then, in this example, all you need to do is determine the maximum voltage and then subtract 19% to get the clean subwoofer voltage.

The only reason to worry about determining maximum clean voltage output is to get a vRMS figure, to determine if a professional amp you’re considering will be compatible.


Quote:
Also, after your done setting your gain you say "All that’s left to do at this point is adjust all the AVR's speaker and subwoofer levels using your usual method". I dont have a usual method.
Sure you do. You do use some kind of method to adjust and match the levels of the main speakers, and then adjust the subwoofer to blend, don’t you?


Quote:
That brings me to my first question. Can i do everything you said exept keep my subwoofer trim at zero? Im not opposed to turning it up to +15 i just have to know what to set it on after i set my gains. 0? Leave it at +15?
Quote:
When determining your clean ouput voltage you say to turn your xover to its highest setting. Can i do it with it on 80? Again, im not opposed to setting it to its highest setting, however, i would like to at least put that back to 80 when the test is done to protect my speakers.
The recommendations for maximum level and crossover settings is only for the purpose of determining the clean output voltage. Nothing more.

Regards,
Wayne



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

Wayne A. Pflughaupt is offline  
post #75 of 85 Old 03-17-19, 10:11 PM
Shackster
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 9
Quote:
Wayne A. Pflughaupt wrote: View Post

Sure you do. You do use some kind of method to adjust and match the levels of the main speakers, and then adjust the subwoofer to blend, don’t you?
No i dont. Thats what i thought setting your subwoofer gain was for. You set your amp to match the level of reciever aka other speakers so in a movie somone closing a car door doesnt sound like an explosion. I like leaving everything at 0 and using my volume. Cant hear dialog? Turn it up...explosions too loud? Turn it down. Untill i upgrade my receiver and get some software or understand it better im gonna keep doing it like this.

I would like to go through my gain setting process with you just to make sure i have it right. I get the idea, you want your reciver and amp to clip at the same time.

I will be using a oscope or dd1 to determine my clean output volume(not a speaker like you did). So (acording to you) i turn my sub trim all the way up(+15), turn my xover all the way up, play a test tone and turn up the volume untill it clips, back off untill it doesnt and thats my safe volume?

Then with my sub trim all the way up (still) and oxer all the way up (still), amp gain at 0 i play pink noise at the safe volume and increase gain until light is steady solid. Thats my gain.

Then since i like everything at 0 i would turn my trim back down to 0 and change my xover back to 80 and im done?

The reason why im asking is because when searching how to set your gains most information is about car audio. Its pretty much the same thing exept they recomend leaving everything flat instead of turning trim all the way up and xover.


Since you know i will most likly put the subwoofer trim back to zero should i just set the gains with them set at zero? I want to get this right so i can set it and forget it! Thanks wayne!!!
djcreative1 is offline  
post #76 of 85 Old 03-18-19, 12:44 PM Thread Starter
HTS Senior Moderator
 
Wayne A. Pflughaupt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Corpus Christi, Texas
Posts: 9,166
Send a message via Yahoo to Wayne A. Pflughaupt
Re: Gain Structure for Home Theater Discussion Thread

What speakers are you using for your main channels?

Regards,
Wayne



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

Wayne A. Pflughaupt is offline  
post #77 of 85 Old 03-18-19, 12:53 PM
Shackster
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 9
Quote:
Wayne A. Pflughaupt wrote: View Post
What speakers are you using for your main channels?

Regards,
Wayne
Mtx tp1200 for l,r
Then old pioneer satalite speakers that come with those 5.1 setups for c sl sr.
djcreative1 is offline  
post #78 of 85 Old 03-18-19, 01:16 PM Thread Starter
HTS Senior Moderator
 
Wayne A. Pflughaupt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Corpus Christi, Texas
Posts: 9,166
Send a message via Yahoo to Wayne A. Pflughaupt
Re: Gain Structure for Home Theater Discussion Thread

Should have asked also (sorry!), what sub are you using?

Regards,
Wayne



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

Wayne A. Pflughaupt is offline  
post #79 of 85 Old 03-18-19, 02:34 PM
Shackster
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 9
Np! One channel will be ran to two nvx vsw152v2's (sealed) 2.4 cu ft per chamber 25oz poly fill each 2 ohm load. The other is a cheap 15 in a ported box tuned to 37. I think is 4.6 cu ft. The sub is a plpw15d. 2 ohm load. I also use a mini dsp for the high pass filter on the ported sub.
djcreative1 is offline  
post #80 of 85 Old 03-18-19, 05:34 PM Thread Starter
HTS Senior Moderator
 
Wayne A. Pflughaupt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Corpus Christi, Texas
Posts: 9,166
Send a message via Yahoo to Wayne A. Pflughaupt
Re: Gain Structure for Home Theater Discussion Thread

Quote:
djcreative1 wrote: View Post
I would like to go through my gain setting process with you just to make sure i have it right. I get the idea, you want your reciver and amp to clip at the same time.
Actually, your situation is outside the scope of the article. The article is based on the premise of using outboard pro-audio amplifiers for all channels.

What you’re basically doing is setting your subwoofer level. The common procedure for that, which you’ll find recommended at any home theater forum, is to adjust the subwoofer gain to get an in-room SPL measurement about 10 dB hotter than the main speakers, as a starting point. True, typically the sub in question is active, but it doesn’t change if your sub happens to have an outboard amplifier. An amp is an amp - makes no difference if it’s in or out of the sub box. And a gain control is a gain control.

At the end of the day, all that matters is: are you able to get all the volume you need out of the sub? If the answer is “no,” even with the receiver’s sub output maxed out, and the sub’s gain all the way up, then a new sub system in order. If the answer is “yes,” you’re good to go.

I’m sure you won’t be satisfied with that, so consider this. In your situation, a pro-audio-styled gain structure exercise is irrelevant because your receiver, despite Pioneer’s specs, probably puts out less than an honest 100 watts per channel, while your Crown amp puts out 1200 watts per channel with your 2-ohm load. IOW, by the time the Crown reaches clipping, the Pioneer will be having a melt-down because it can’t keep up.

So, you can do the max-level procedure you mentioned, at +15 or 0 (your choice), but what you’re probably going to find is that the sub ends up exceeding loud compared to the main speakers. Which means you’ll have to back down on the amplifier gain. Which means all you’ve ultimately done is blend the sub with the main speakers, just as I described in the second paragraph above.

Regards,
Wayne



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

Wayne A. Pflughaupt is offline  
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
discussion , gain , home , structure , theater , thread

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now




PLEASE COMPLETE ALL REQUIRED FIELDS BELOW... THANKS!

REQUIRED FIELDS ON THIS PAGE
YOU MUST COMPLETE ALL OF THESE

Username
Password
Confirm Password
Email Address
Confirm Email Address
Random Question
Random Question #2




User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
PLEASE READ BELOW PRIOR TO ENTERING AN EMAIL ADDRESS!

ATTENTION!

YOU MUST ACTIVATE YOUR ACCOUNT!

Activation requires you reply to an email we will send you after you register... if you do not reply to this email, you will not be able to view certain areas of the forum or certain images... nor will you be able download software.

AN INVALID EMAIL ADDRESS WILL CAUSE YOUR ACCOUNT TO BE DELETED!

See our banned email list here: Banned Email List

We DO NOT respond to spamcop, boxtrapper and spamblocker emails... please add @hometheatershack DOT com to your whitelist prior to registering or you will get nowhere on your registration.


Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML is not allowed!
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 


For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome