Can we really hear a difference between amps? - Page 9 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

View Poll Results: Is there a noticeably audible difference between two level matched solid state amps under controlled
Yes... I believe a notable difference can be heard. 135 48.39%
No... I do not believe there is any audibly significant difference. 144 51.61%
Voters: 279. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #81 of 825 Old 11-02-10, 01:46 PM
Shackster
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Seattle
Posts: 5
Re: Can we really hear a difference between amps?

re: ddgtr, Danny, above

I'd be very interested to know if the 160 class A amp was the one preferred vis-a-vis the 100 watter. That has been my experience in the past with two Yamaha amps.
Joe in Seattle is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #82 of 825 Old 11-02-10, 08:29 PM
Elite Shackster
 
bambino's Avatar
bambino
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Iowa
Posts: 4,418
Re: Can we really hear a difference between amps?

In short i'm going to say yes there is a differance in sound.
bambino is offline  
post #83 of 825 Old 11-02-10, 08:37 PM
Senior Shackster
Danny
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Sacramento Area
Posts: 108
Re: Can we really hear a difference between amps?

Quote:
Joe in Seattle wrote: View Post
re: ddgtr, Danny, above

I'd be very interested to know if the 160 class A amp was the one preferred vis-a-vis the 100 watter. That has been my experience in the past with two Yamaha amps.
Yes, in my case this is correct, the 160 was my favorite. My friend preferred the 100. It just goes to show that personal taste beats everything else!!

The amps we auditioned are Pass Labs. Overall, I liked the 160 watt monos because of the perfect blend of detail and warmth.

The 100 watt monos were my friend's favorites by far.

I ended up getting the x350.5 stereo, which also puts out the first 30watts in class A. The reason was that it sounded very, very close to the xa160.5 monos while the cost was half.

Even though both the 100 and 160's shared similar technology, the 160's sounded closer to the stereo class AB than to the 100's.

But again, I was surprised at the differences and at the fact that we could identify them. I honestly expected them to sound similar at low - moderate volume and only separate when played really loud.

Regards
ddgtr is offline  
 
post #84 of 825 Old 11-03-10, 10:56 AM
Senior Shackster
 
Gregr's Avatar
Greg
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Farmingdale, Maine
Posts: 723
My System
Re: Can we really hear a difference between amps?

Hi All,

This is a great question..., one that is asked again and again and always peaks the interest of many people regardless of experience. I find all of the answers useful and interesting.

Very quickly, my background is essentially a lifetime amateur of sorts although I have been paid for electrical work many times past.

My Dad had a local Tv and stereo sales and service for 25 ++ years. I used to help Id problems and change out modules 60's after HS classes. I used to sing and play harmonica in 60's garage bands. Sound quality was always the question, "Dyna-kit's rule"! My claim to fame..., building an external FM antenna using an old tv antenna and cutting the elements exactly to BCN (Boston) radio frequency I then mounted on a wooden broom stick handle on the New England Farm house 3rd story roof peak in Waterville Maine.

OK enough. In response to your 1khz premise I will say this. My neighbor during HS was a drummer in several of the bands I did some singing with. I will never forget the day he taught me to "tune his drums".
Striking the drum head near the edge near each tightening nut elicits a tone and not only does the tone need to match at each nut but the overall drum tone is set to a specific tone (frequency). So in this case you can clearly see a 1khz drum tone is much different then a 1khz electric guitar tone. This brings me to a simple principal I keep in the back of my mind these days whenever buying new equipment or setting to listen to reproduced Audio which is music and movies, lectures etc..

I have many thoughts today on "Sound Reproduction". But again very quickly, this one thought supported by my drummer friends drum tuning is simply that "A huge consideration when I buy equipment is the "Material Used" in the equipment and the signal path. Which is why I agree with the original writer the speaker is the least expensive (relatively speaking) place to invest in building a quality system that returns the biggest bang for the buck.

You will never appreciate the incredible music of a "Boutique Designed System" on a "stamped basket $6 speaker (driver) in a cardboard box". But a well made driver with musical characteristics will certainly make some of the of the shelf low budget receivers old equipment sound very good. But now looking at this flip-side this musical speaker/driver will allow you now appreciate better electronics. Which leads to another question and another point for consideration. The 1khz signal from a guitar and reproduced thru electronic equipment can sound different if attention to combining equipment that create a synergy when used together first and the compromises are not addressed second.

I heard somebody say/write somewhere once that the more money spent on equipment shares an inverse relationship with the amount of compromise expected in an audio system (unfortunately not always true but a good rule to consider I believe)

Thanks for reading I am anxious for a response..., I gotta go.......

Greg
Gregr is offline  
post #85 of 825 Old 11-03-10, 03:56 PM
Elite Shackster
 
Ricci's Avatar
Josh
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 2,431
Re: Can we really hear a difference between amps?

Isn't there STILL $10,000 waiting for someone who can come in and accurately and reliably do this under controlled double blind listening sessions? I believe that challenge has been going for some 10 years now and no one has claimed the money yet.

Placebo effects and uncontrolled, unmatched variables are powerful things.
Ricci is offline  
post #86 of 825 Old 11-03-10, 04:23 PM Thread Starter
Elite Shackster
 
Sonnie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: L.A. (Lower Alabama)
Posts: 22,577
My System
Re: Can we really hear a difference between amps?

I do wonder myself if it still stands... and if it does, why no one has accepted it. VERY good question!
Sonnie is offline  
post #87 of 825 Old 11-03-10, 04:35 PM
Senior Shackster
 
JerryLove's Avatar
Jerry
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 267
Re: Can we really hear a difference between amps?

Quote:
Sonnie wrote: View Post
I do wonder myself if it still stands... and if it does, why no one has accepted it. VERY good question!
Because no one can actually tell amps apart when the prerequisites are met.

The challenge you were looking for: http://www.tom-morrow-land.com/tests...ll/rcrules.htm
JerryLove is offline  
post #88 of 825 Old 11-03-10, 04:56 PM Thread Starter
Elite Shackster
 
Sonnie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: L.A. (Lower Alabama)
Posts: 22,577
My System
Re: Can we really hear a difference between amps?

Thanks for the link... I like this part:

Twelve correct responses in a row is certainly a lot of correct listening but $10,000 is also a lot of money for a few hours of easy listening. The way people describe the differences is that they are like night and day. I would certainly not have any trouble choosing between an apple and an orange 12 times in a row. When compared fairly I believe the differences in amps are much too small to audibly detect and certainly too small to pay large sums of extra money for. If I am wrong someone should be able to carefully take this test and win my money.
Sonnie is offline  
post #89 of 825 Old 11-03-10, 11:04 PM
Senior Shackster
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 123
Re: Can we really hear a difference between amps?

I am not sure who moderates this site but I am asking PLEASE next time one of these long threads gets going to quickly insert the link to the $10,000 test challenge. Just when you think that logic and reason has prevailed someone posts another "such and such amp sounds warmer..."

There are real world physical limitations at play in electronics of all types. The power amp test challenge shows that any decent power amp is designed to faithfully reproduce whatever is input to it to the point that it is not possible to tell the difference between power amps. This also applies to power cords and possibly other components. So let's set this aside and help people understand it so they can invest in things that are actually going to improve their system.

In my experience the single biggest variable is the speaker system. It is costly to manufacture tweeters that will accurately produce high frequencies at volume. It is also costly to manufacture woofers that are accurate, can be played at high volume, dissipate heat, not distort when hot, and be long lasting. Speaker enclosures and boxes are no longer any big deal since a computer can crunch the numbers. The drivers are the key.

All said and done, assuming a decent amp and speakers, if you don't EQ your room it makes no difference anyway.

So let's try to educate the people at this forum of what is possible and what is not. We can agree to disagree and all that business but fact is fact. If no one has taken up the $10,000 challenge and won then let's put our energy and instruction toward actual real world issues that can make a difference. And as far as the psychological tricks our minds play on us, it is OK to tell people that they are being tricked. If you don't want to know the truth then don't come to forums where smart people can explain away dazzling sales strategies.
goyop is offline  
post #90 of 825 Old 11-04-10, 11:59 AM
Elite Shackster
 
Moonfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 7,142
Re: Can we really hear a difference between amps?

Perhaps we should have added a poll?
Moonfly is offline  
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
amps? , difference , hear

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now




PLEASE COMPLETE ALL REQUIRED FIELDS BELOW... THANKS!

REQUIRED FIELDS ON THIS PAGE
YOU MUST COMPLETE ALL OF THESE

Username
Password
Confirm Password
Email Address
Confirm Email Address
Random Question
Random Question #2




User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
PLEASE READ BELOW PRIOR TO ENTERING AN EMAIL ADDRESS!

ATTENTION!

YOU MUST ACTIVATE YOUR ACCOUNT!

Activation requires you reply to an email we will send you after you register... if you do not reply to this email, you will not be able to view certain areas of the forum or certain images... nor will you be able download software.

AN INVALID EMAIL ADDRESS WILL CAUSE YOUR ACCOUNT TO BE DELETED!

See our banned email list here: Banned Email List

We DO NOT respond to spamcop, boxtrapper and spamblocker emails... please add @hometheatershack DOT com to your whitelist prior to registering or you will get nowhere on your registration.


Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML is not allowed!
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 


For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome