What is the best set up, 7.1 with SB or 7.1 with presence speaker?
My setup now is 7.1 SB.
Do you think the presence speakers will make my stage better?
If I go with the presence setup I can bi-amp my mains.:bigsmile:.
Doing the 7.1 SB I can use the presence output for my 3rd zone.
What you guys think??:dumbcrazy:
In movies that put surrounds to good use, I noticed a very nice and noticable improvement in my surround space by using rears. PLIIx layering on top of DD or DTS is without a doubt my preferred movie playback style. If your LCR already provide a nice large soundstage, I can only see presence channels hurting.
I agree with SteveCallas about the presence channels. Your room has a small width and I couldn't see it helping... nor in mine. If my HT shared my great room, then I see it being an asset.
The presence channels are actually great for Yamaha’s music DSP modes. I’ve used ours both with and without the presence speakers, and they definitely make an audible difference. Unlike most manufacturers, Yamaha’s DSP modes are modeled on actual venues, to mimic the acoustics of a concert hall, stadium, etc. If you like concert videos (and I know you do!) you can get a more enjoyable experience if y our HT “sounds” like the big auditorium, or small jazz club, that you’re “seeing” them in.
That said, I’ve only used the DSPs with Yamaha’s top-of-the-line models, and our dated flagship which is over 10 years old now. Back then the lower-line models I heard, they sounded cheesy. But I expect by this time the technology from the old flagships has trickled down to the lower models. It sure can’t hurt to hook them up and see what you get.
The presence channels are helpful. I've used them with my older Yamaha RX-V1.
The new 10.2 format that Tom Holman (THX Developer) is preparing for as a next generation format has not more rear or side speakers, but more front channel speakers. Hence, I think the front stage is where it's at for improving movie soundtrack realism.
I got the V1700 all connected and setup last night and today. I must say at first listen I am surprised at how laid back and warm this receiver sounds with the SVS SBS-01 system. I love the sound... :T If it were not for the sound I firmly believe I would sell it because of all the other nick picky things I find bothersome.
Setup went fairly easy, although navigating the menu was aggravating at times with no "Return" or "Back" button to get you back to where you were previously. I found myself having to exit completely out of the Menu and go back in to go to some other settings... really poorly arranged IMO.
Auto setup was of course about what I expected and what I've seen with many other receivers. It never gets the Large/Small setting on the speakers right, setting the SBS-01 speakers to Large. The sub distance was way off, although the manual did state this could happen, but I don't buy it.
I found I had to set the levels almost at max to get to my listening level while the receiver is set to -10 on the volume. Had I left it where the auto setup had it, I would be at +10 before it was getting loud enough.
Fortunately we only have to get it setup once with maybe some minor adjustments and we are done with the Menu, or at least I think most users would be.
One other minor gripe is the volume level numbers are teenie weenie and there is no way to read them from my listening position. I wish they had made those numbers much bigger or allow it to pop-up on the screen all the time like it does when you are adjusting it in the Menu.
I still plan on testing the Auto-EQ to see how it performs.
Setup went fairly easy, although navigating the menu was aggravating at times with no "Return" or "Back" button to get you back to where you were previously. I found myself having to exit completely out of the Menu and go back in to go to some other settings... really poorly arranged IMO.
I was previously using the Maestro M2 with an Earthquake Cinenova Grande. The sound was more neutral with those in play with the SBS-01's. The JBL Northridge speakers started out fairly bright, but mellowed down somewhat after several hours of play.
I guess since I've read several places where Yamaha was on the brighter side that I was expecting a bright sound, but I have been pleasantly surprised. This unit actually reminds me of my old McIntosh gear.
I guess since I've read several places where Yamaha was on the brighter side that I was expecting a bright sound, but I have been pleasantly surprised. This unit actually reminds me of my old McIntosh gear.
I had a Yamaha DSP-A3090 before I got my Denon 3803, and the Yamaha definately had a brighter sound than the Denon. I have heard from a few different sources lately that the new Yamahas have a warm sound. I was thinking you had a Denon for some reason, I was interested in a comparison between the two.
Yeah, I've had the Denon 3805 and 3806... both sounded about the same to me and I would say they were rather neutral as well, but in both cases I used the Cinenova as the amp and each Denon as a pre-pro.
I have my RX-V1700 hook to the toshiba HD-XA2 via HDMI and when I press the "straight" button is only showing MPCM, I cant get it to dolby o dts, do I need to change something on the DVD player o the receiver?????:dontknow:
The "Straight" button disables the internal DSP (so no DD PLIIx to make 7.1 out of 5.1). Try not using it. Selecting the DVD audio input on the Yamaha should do an "auto" select to use the linear Multichannel PCM HDMI audio input without using the "Straight" button. I'm just extrapolating from what my RX-V2500 does (no HDMI) with the S/PDIF digital versus two channel analog with its auto select of the best input for a given selection.
although navigating the menu was aggravating at times with no "Return" or "Back" button to get you back to where you were previously. I found myself having to exit completely out of the Menu and go back in to go to some other settings... really poorly arranged IMO.
Assuming it's the same as my 5890, all you do is press up or down at the top or bottom of the list (respectively) and it takes you right back to the previous menu screen. For instance, if you are into the menu system with something generic like:
1
..A
.....Left
.....Right
.....Center
.....etc
and you want to get back to level A, just keep pressing up until you get back to Left and then press up again and you're back in A. Does that make sense? I find it makes navigation really easy because you only have to use up, down, left, and right the whole time. Other receivers I've played with have buttons for every minor task and it becomes ridiculous.
Sonnie said:
I found I had to set the levels almost at max to get to my listening level while the receiver is set to -10 on the volume. Had I left it where the auto setup had it, I would be at +10 before it was getting loud enough.
Is this calibrated to reference or just generically basing it on -10 should be "loud"? With Yamaha test tones, you calibrate each channel to 75db when master volume is at 0.
Sonnie said:
One other minor gripe is the volume level numbers are teenie weenie and there is no way to read them from my listening position. I wish they had made those numbers much bigger or allow it to pop-up on the screen all the time like it does when you are adjusting it in the Menu.
Unless the 1700 is different from the 5890 again, the MV does pop up on screen when you are using the video input the menu is set on. Additionally, whatever is displayed on the receiver pannel (THX, Standard, Pro Logic IIx, etc) changes to display the master volume when adjusting the volume.
Assuming it's the same as my 5890, all you do is press up or down at the top or bottom of the list (respectively) and it takes you right back to the previous menu screen.
Is this calibrated to reference or just generically basing it on -10 should be "loud"? With Yamaha test tones, you calibrate each channel to 75db when master volume is at 0.
Unless the 1700 is different from the 5890 again, the MV does pop up on screen when you are using the video input the menu is set on. Additionally, whatever is displayed on the receiver pannel (THX, Standard, Pro Logic IIx, etc) changes to display the master volume when adjusting the volume.
I'm not sure what you mean by "video input the menu is set on". :scratch: The only video connection I have is HDMI so the OSD is using HDMI to show on my screen.
I'm thinking they must be different because nothing changes on the front of my unit when changing volumes. Unless there is somewhere I can tell it to do this and just haven't figured it out or read it in the manual yet. :huh:
So when your projector is using the HDMI input, and you change the master volume, it shows up on neither the screen nor on the front pannel of the receiver display? :blink: That's odd. That should be default, but I'd imagine there has to be a way to turn that on.
So when your projector is using the HDMI input, and you change the master volume, it shows up on neither the screen nor on the front pannel of the receiver display?
Mine's like yours - pushing a button shows the action on both the front-panel display and the OSD. Guess they’ve changed that – bad move, especially with the iddy-biddy volume numbers... From what I see in the manual, the short OSD display only shows what’s on the front panel – which I guess is a static “Dolby Digital,” “Pro Logic,” etc.
Hmm, you know what, I bet it's precisely because he is using HDMI. I wonder if the receiver is incapable of displaying system info through the HDMI signal chain while material is being played?
The guys from toshiba told me the it could be that the receiver doesnt support DD, DTS.......... thru HDMI.:hissyfit:
The guys from yamaha................. on screen menu is only with video, s video and 480p component.:crying: :rant:
I did some more tinkering and reading... no new news and no good news... same ole stuff.
I measured my non-eq'd response and my PEQ response tonight:
Blue = Non-EQ
Red = PEQ
Doesn't seem to do a whole lot really, except roll off the high end.
I'm really disappointed with the functionality of this unit. Yamaha has really dropped the ball IMO. Even though I like the sound, I still may sell it and go back to Denon.
No matter what I do... all I can get to show up is the MPCM .... I haven't seen any indication of DD or DTS yet. I have tried every possible setting tonight, but generally have resorted to AUTO for most of them.
Hey that sounds like a source problem and not the AVR. Is the source set to output bitstream on HDMI for standard DVDs? Like the AUTO setting for HDMI on the Toshiba HD DVD players.
I doubt that there is such a thing as a HDMI 1.3 only cable. Any HDMI cable should work.
The Toshiba DVD is sending DD, DTS, etc...... the receiver is not recognizing the signal thru HDMI, it could be the cable!! DVD player is 1.3 and the receiver is 1.2:dontknow: the receiver just cant read the info thru the HDMI, maybe using the digital input!!!:scratch::wits-end:
Hey Sonnie is your cable 1.3???
I don't know... MPCM is Multi PCM, so maybe that's what it's supposed to be showing. We need to test some SD DVDs and see what happens with them. I might also hook up a digital cable just to see what happens.
I'm thinking along the same line as Bob.... I don't think there is a 1.3 only cable. I don't think this is the issue, but I've been wrong an awful lot in my life time. :sarcastic:
Sonnie, that's a pretty nice overall FR before PEQ :clap: If you were somehow able to boost the 60-150hz range a bit, I think you would find a nice improvement in percieved bass sound quality :nerd:
Sounds like the 1700 is nothing but problems. From my point of view, I'm not interested in carrying audio/video over a single cable and won't be until the industry absolutely forces me to. That issue aside, it still sounds like there are problems. As I mentioned before, every receiver has its own idiosyncracies, and it seems that the ones in this unit are pretty annoying. If you were pleased with the Denon, I wouldn't hesitate to go back. The job of a receiver is to simplify things, not compound them :T
Oh, by the way, any chance one of you guys could pop the hood and take a top down picture of the internals? I'm interested in finding out if the power supply, heat sinks, and capacitors are the same as in my unit.
I wuold be interested to see a graph comparing 'straight' mode to one of the cinema DSP modes, I've heard the DSP modes add some boost in the bass frequencies on the newer AVRs.
As Bob mentioned, check the Toshiba to see if DD/DTS bitstream is set to HDMI, I'm guessing its set to SPDIF at the moment.
Sonnie, one more thing. You should be able to manually adjust the EQ - I'd cancel auto EQ (it's hurting, not helping), and since you already have a great "before" graph to work from, you can manually dial in where you want to make changes. You should be able to make a big impact that way.
Maybe not. It did smooth response above 3 kHz quite a bit. The SBS-01s are on the bright side, so it may be that they needed a little taming in Sonnie’s room. I think I’d leave the EQ alone, and instead dial up the treble control if more highs are needed, which would increase them while maintaining the improved response.
I'm really disappointed with the functionality of this unit. Yamaha has really dropped the ball IMO. Even though I like the sound, I still may sell it and go back to Denon.
What a disappointment. I helped some friends set up an RX-V1600 just a year ago, and I was pretty impressed with it – had a lot of improvements over my old DSP-A3090. It was the first one with HDMI, and it worked fine with their DVD player and TV. I was impressed with how easy the remote was to operate and program. I was also impressed with the manual (if you want to see a dreadful manual, check Harmon Kardon. None of the helpful pictures that Yamaha, Denon, Pioneer et. al use – just a dreary and tedious sea of black ink and small fonts, and you have to constantly refer to the pictures way back at the front of the book..)
Looking at the picture of it on Yamaha’s website I see the 1600 also has the tiny volume numbers – I really didn’t notice that at the time. I think that would aggravate me as well.
Regards,
Wayne
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