Denon AVR-2311 - "Manual" EQ setting affect on subwoofer output - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

 
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post #1 of 8 Old 05-31-12, 07:24 PM Thread Starter
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Denon AVR-2311 - "Manual" EQ setting affect on subwoofer output

Hello there. Intermediate-time listener, first-time caller.

Having a strange problem with the "Manual" EQ settings engaged on my 2311. Even with all octave adjustments at zero (as a test), I am hearing a significant difference in the subwoofer output when I toggle the EQ mode between "OFF" and "Manual" while watching BD content. When in Manual mode, the subwoofer output is considerably diminished. I don't have dB figures, but it's a night and day difference to the ears. Given that the graphic EQ does not (to my knowledge) affect the SW channel, and that I have it set to flat (so that the bass re-direction should not vary) I am at a loss to understand why this is so. Only thing I can think of is that there is a default attenuation/filter to the SW channel that is not 'seen' in the Manual EQ menus. Any thoughts, comments, pointing-out-something-obvious-I'm-missing would be greatly appreciated.
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post #2 of 8 Old 05-31-12, 07:41 PM
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Re: Denon AVR-2311 - "Manual" EQ setting affect on subwoofer output

Quote:
Spdifman wrote: View Post
Hello there. Intermediate-time listener, first-time caller.

Having a strange problem with the "Manual" EQ settings engaged on my 2311. Even with all octave adjustments at zero (as a test), I am hearing a significant difference in the subwoofer output when I toggle the EQ mode between "OFF" and "Manual" while watching BD content. When in Manual mode, the subwoofer output is considerably diminished. I don't have dB figures, but it's a night and day difference to the ears. Given that the graphic EQ does not (to my knowledge) affect the SW channel, and that I have it set to flat (so that the bass re-direction should not vary) I am at a loss to understand why this is so. Only thing I can think of is that there is a default attenuation/filter to the SW channel that is not 'seen' in the Manual EQ menus. Any thoughts, comments, pointing-out-something-obvious-I'm-missing would be greatly appreciated.
Hello,
Welcome to HTS. Given your Denon offers the far more advanced MultEQ which supplants the Parametric EQ when engaged, is it that you were not pleased when you performed the Audyssey MultEQ Calibration? The overwhelming majority of 2311 Owners engage Audyssey as it provides so much more Filtering.

If you have not done so already, I would at least connect the supplied Audyssey Microphone and run MultEQ and decide with your ears. I personally have not used the Parametric EQ on any AVR or SSP that has also provided Audyssey in the past 6 Years plus.
Cheers,
JJ

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Speakers: Martin Logan Vantage (Mains), Martin Logan Stage (Center), Martin Logan Vista (Surrounds), Martin Logan Montages (Surrounds) Hsu Research VTF-15h MK2, Martin Logan Descent i (Subwoofer)
Amplification: Aragon 8008bb, Parasound HCA-3500, Parasound HCA-2205 AT, Parasound HCA-1000a
AVR/SSP: Denon AVR-4520CI
Electronics: OPPO BDP-93
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post #3 of 8 Old 05-31-12, 09:00 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Denon AVR-2311 - "Manual" EQ setting affect on subwoofer output

Thanks for the quick response JJ. I should have clarified that I have indeed looked at MultEQ. I've run it several times, but have never been quite satisfied with it. I have read many a forum thread re the theory and setup, but have opted to play around with manual tweaking via the GEQ for a while. That's when I noticed this quirk. Oddly enough, when I have the EQ mode set to OFF and engage the basic tone controls, I don't seem to have this problem with regard to a lowered sub output.
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post #4 of 8 Old 05-31-12, 10:10 PM
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Re: Denon AVR-2311 - "Manual" EQ setting affect on subwoofer output

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Spdifman wrote: View Post
Thanks for the quick response JJ. I should have clarified that I have indeed looked at MultEQ. I've run it several times, but have never been quite satisfied with it. I have read many a forum thread re the theory and setup, but have opted to play around with manual tweaking via the GEQ for a while. That's when I noticed this quirk. Oddly enough, when I have the EQ mode set to OFF and engage the basic tone controls, I don't seem to have this problem with regard to a lowered sub output.
Hello,
Given your Post, I certainly did not dismiss the possibility that Audyssey simply was not for you. I wish the 2311 offered Dolby Volume as I still have never heard my Center Channel sound better than when DV is engaged and as soon as you turn it on, all Audyssey Features are defeated. Regardless, this is quite a interesting phenomenon that you are experiencing. It would be really interesting if you ran HTS's REW Software where you could see with Graphs the differences that it makes. However, even an SPL Meter would provide some interesting information given what you have described.
Cheers,
JJ

HT
Speakers: Martin Logan Vantage (Mains), Martin Logan Stage (Center), Martin Logan Vista (Surrounds), Martin Logan Montages (Surrounds) Hsu Research VTF-15h MK2, Martin Logan Descent i (Subwoofer)
Amplification: Aragon 8008bb, Parasound HCA-3500, Parasound HCA-2205 AT, Parasound HCA-1000a
AVR/SSP: Denon AVR-4520CI
Electronics: OPPO BDP-93
Gaming Consoles: Sony PS4, Xbox 360 S (250 gb)
Display: Panasonic TC-P65ZT60, Sony KDL-55EX500, Sony KD-34XBR910
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post #5 of 8 Old 06-01-12, 09:37 AM
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Re: Denon AVR-2311 - "Manual" EQ setting affect on subwoofer output

First, welcome to HTS!!

Just for clarification, are you stating that you set the sub eq to "flat," but when you change the eq mode from off to manual you are hearing a difference in SPL? If I'm reading your question correctly, I agree with JJack that you should probably double check this with a SPL meter/REW. Perhaps just engaging the eq is adding gain somewhere in the chain?
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post #6 of 8 Old 06-02-12, 10:17 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Denon AVR-2311 - "Manual" EQ setting affect on subwoofer output

Hi WGM.

Sub EQ is not a factor, as I am not engaging Audyssey. I am talking about a difference in subwoofer output when I switch between EQ 'off' at all and the 'manual' setting (10 band graphic equalizer for satellites only). When switching between the OFF and Manual mode, there is a difference in the sub output (lower with GEQ active). Agree that some metrics are in order, but the point is I can clearly discern a difference, where I feel there should not be. For testing purposes I have kept the graphic equalizer settings flat. Almost feels like the bass management is being handled differently, and the LFE adustment is different in both modes.
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post #7 of 8 Old 06-02-12, 12:57 PM
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Re: Denon AVR-2311 - "Manual" EQ setting affect on subwoofer output

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Spdifman wrote: View Post
Hi WGM.

Sub EQ is not a factor, as I am not engaging Audyssey. I am talking about a difference in subwoofer output when I switch between EQ 'off' at all and the 'manual' setting (10 band graphic equalizer for satellites only). When switching between the OFF and Manual mode, there is a difference in the sub output (lower with GEQ active). Agree that some metrics are in order, but the point is I can clearly discern a difference, where I feel there should not be. For testing purposes I have kept the graphic equalizer settings flat. Almost feels like the bass management is being handled differently, and the LFE adustment is different in both modes.
Thanks; I agree that it seems that the output should be the same with the eq settings flat. Perhaps some gain is added when the eq is engaged as it (the eq) is active even though the setting the are flat?
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post #8 of 8 Old 06-04-12, 06:24 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Denon AVR-2311 - "Manual" EQ setting affect on subwoofer output

Thanks for the reply. In terms of the non SW channels, there does not seem to be any change in level between the two modes. I'm not sure where the SW attenuation comes from. I've calibrated my levels using an old DVD copy of DVE, and stangely enough, the LFE test signal on that disk does not seem to vary in SPL between the OFF and Manual modes. I know the LFE test signal is band limited on DVE (something around 40-80 Hz perhaps?). My two theories are that the HD audio is being handled differently than the DD5.1 by the receiver, or that the manual EQ mode is perhaps engaging some sort of default filter on the SW channel (something outside the test tones used in calibration).
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