My dilemma. Need advise bad im going insane. - Page 2 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

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post #11 of 35 Old 06-29-13, 08:37 PM
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Re: My dilemma. Need advise bad im going insane.

IMO, the 5007 should have no trouble cleanly powering a pair of mains to fairly loud volumes cleanly. ("How loud is loud" is a relative question that I can't answer definitively.) It might even handle a pair of mains and a CC speaker cleanly. For five- or seven-channel, though, I would want an external amp, especially in a larger room and for louder volume levels.

Quote:
Surely a 200 watt speaker needs more than 100 watts to sound nice at a normal movie watching volume.
Not necessarily. That 200W figure likely represents the recommended or maximum amount of power the speakers are designed to handle, not the amount of power required to make them sound nice.

FWIW:
- My SR6003 (rated at 7 x 100W/ch., but measured at 130W/ch. into two channels) powers my Studio 60v4s (rated 15-200W input power) just fine.
- My Emotiva UPA-5 (rated and measured at 5 x 125W/ch., and likely putting out no more than 150W/ch. into three channels) powers my Studio CC-690v5 (rated 15-300W input power) + my Studio 20v4s (rated 15-150W input power) just fine.
- My speakers have never sounded "not nice" because they weren't getting 200W or 300W of power.

With your speakers, the combination of XPA-3 to handle your mains + CC, and the SR5007 to handle your surrounds (and all A/V processing) would be an excellent combination that would not leave you wanting.

Last edited by 86eldel68-deactivated; 06-29-13 at 08:46 PM.
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post #12 of 35 Old 06-30-13, 10:04 AM
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Re: My dilemma. Need advise bad im going insane.

When i said get the job done, i did not mean 'barely get the job done', I mean the AVR will most likely be all you need. When in doubt about this it is best to hedge your bet and get an AVR with preamp outputs so if you are the rare person that 'needs' an amplifier it can be added later.

A speakers power rating (or amplifier power recommendation) is more of a do not exceed recommendation instead of a requirement.
If you have a 1000 watt amplifier and a 100 watt AVR and you play those speakers at 95dB SPL @ 1 meter both the AVR and the 1000 watt amplifier will be producing 12.5 watts of output power and there will be no difference in the sound.

On the + side, according to the spec sheet your speakers are 8 ohms across the entire range, this means they will not present any low impedances that give some AVRs problems at very high volume levels.
On the - side the speakers are not very efficient, this is a 'problem' that you really cannot overcome by throwing power at.
For example.... It takes 12.5 watts for you to get 95dB (which is actually pretty loud in a room) out of one of your speakers. To get 98dB will take 25 watts, 101dB = 50 watts, 104dB = 100 watts.
So if you have an AVR that can output 100 watts you only get 3dB more SPL by going to a 200 watt amplifier.

While many people claim to have better sound quality after adding an amplifier, those claims have never been substantiated in a double blind listening test.

I am not anti-amplifier, I believe people should get what makes them happy and as soon as I win the mega million lotto I am going to get myself a McIntosh mono block separates system along with some fancy speaker wires to connect to my new Sono Faber or B&W 800 speakers.

I would get the AVR that has all the features you want and give the system a month long tryout to see if it performs to your expectations.
If it does not, I would then invest in the measurement tools (REW and calibrated mic) necessary to determine what the problem is and go from there.

There is also nothing wrong with getting an amplifier just because you want one and if you 'think' it makes the system sound better, then it is worth the money to you.
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post #13 of 35 Old 06-30-13, 02:26 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
chashint wrote: View Post
When i said get the job done, i did not mean 'barely get the job done', I mean the AVR will most likely be all you need. When in doubt about this it is best to hedge your bet and get an AVR with preamp outputs so if you are the rare person that 'needs' an amplifier it can be added later.

A speakers power rating (or amplifier power recommendation) is more of a do not exceed recommendation instead of a requirement.
If you have a 1000 watt amplifier and a 100 watt AVR and you play those speakers at 95dB SPL @ 1 meter both the AVR and the 1000 watt amplifier will be producing 12.5 watts of output power and there will be no difference in the sound.

On the + side, according to the spec sheet your speakers are 8 ohms across the entire range, this means they will not present any low impedances that give some AVRs problems at very high volume levels.
On the - side the speakers are not very efficient, this is a 'problem' that you really cannot overcome by throwing power at.
For example.... It takes 12.5 watts for you to get 95dB (which is actually pretty loud in a room) out of one of your speakers. To get 98dB will take 25 watts, 101dB = 50 watts, 104dB = 100 watts.
So if you have an AVR that can output 100 watts you only get 3dB more SPL by going to a 200 watt amplifier.

While many people claim to have better sound quality after adding an amplifier, those claims have never been substantiated in a double blind listening test.

I am not anti-amplifier, I believe people should get what makes them happy and as soon as I win the mega million lotto I am going to get myself a McIntosh mono block separates system along with some fancy speaker wires to connect to my new Sono Faber or B&W 800 speakers.

I would get the AVR that has all the features you want and give the system a month long tryout to see if it performs to your expectations.
If it does not, I would then invest in the measurement tools (REW and calibrated mic) necessary to determine what the problem is and go from there.

There is also nothing wrong with getting an amplifier just because you want one and if you 'think' it makes the system sound better, then it is worth the money to you.
This may sound funny but I didn't actually debate buying the AVR without an amp an trying it out first. I've been using a 25 watt 2 channel amp for my b&w dm302's and am quite happy with the sound even though they max out at 100 watts.

Thank you for your detailed explanation an advice. I've been longing for guidance and I just got that eureka moment after reading the above. I'm going to get the sr5007 and try it out for am month and see how it works. This will save me a boat load of cash.
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post #14 of 35 Old 06-30-13, 03:18 PM
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Re: My dilemma. Need advise bad im going insane.

I think you will be very pleased with the 5007.
Now is there any way I can talk you into getting a Pioneer .... J/K
Enjoy your new AVR.
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post #15 of 35 Old 06-30-13, 04:24 PM
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Re: My dilemma. Need advise bad im going insane.

Quote:
chashint wrote: View Post
When i said get the job done, i did not mean 'barely get the job done', I mean the AVR will most likely be all you need. When in doubt about this it is best to hedge your bet and get an AVR with preamp outputs so if you are the rare person that 'needs' an amplifier it can be added later.

A speakers power rating (or amplifier power recommendation) is more of a do not exceed recommendation instead of a requirement.
If you have a 1000 watt amplifier and a 100 watt AVR and you play those speakers at 95dB SPL @ 1 meter both the AVR and the 1000 watt amplifier will be producing 12.5 watts of output power and there will be no difference in the sound.

On the + side, according to the spec sheet your speakers are 8 ohms across the entire range, this means they will not present any low impedances that give some AVRs problems at very high volume levels.
On the - side the speakers are not very efficient, this is a 'problem' that you really cannot overcome by throwing power at.
For example.... It takes 12.5 watts for you to get 95dB (which is actually pretty loud in a room) out of one of your speakers. To get 98dB will take 25 watts, 101dB = 50 watts, 104dB = 100 watts.
So if you have an AVR that can output 100 watts you only get 3dB more SPL by going to a 200 watt amplifier.

While many people claim to have better sound quality after adding an amplifier, those claims have never been substantiated in a double blind listening test.

I am not anti-amplifier, I believe people should get what makes them happy and as soon as I win the mega million lotto I am going to get myself a McIntosh mono block separates system along with some fancy speaker wires to connect to my new Sono Faber or B&W 800 speakers.

I would get the AVR that has all the features you want and give the system a month long tryout to see if it performs to your expectations.
If it does not, I would then invest in the measurement tools (REW and calibrated mic) necessary to determine what the problem is and go from there.

There is also nothing wrong with getting an amplifier just because you want one and if you 'think' it makes the system sound better, then it is worth the money to you.
excellent post!


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post #16 of 35 Old 07-02-13, 02:10 PM Thread Starter
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Guess my next question is where the do I get one (sr5007) for a decent price? Accessories 4 less has it for 499 right now but I live in Ontario, Canada. They will not ship. I can have it delivered to the border but I loose my warranty when I cross.

It's 899 in stores here brand new. Which exceeds my current budget for a receiver.

Any Canadians know a better website to use?
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post #17 of 35 Old 07-02-13, 03:12 PM
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Re: My dilemma. Need advise bad im going insane.

Gibby's in St. Catharines currently has it on sale for $698.88.
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post #18 of 35 Old 07-02-13, 03:52 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
eljay wrote: View Post
Gibby's in St. Catharines currently has it on sale for $698.88.
You my friend have also been great help! Thank you Eljay!!! I'm assuming this is brand new too!
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post #19 of 35 Old 07-02-13, 04:33 PM
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Re: My dilemma. Need advise bad im going insane.

Glad to help. Marantz is a brand that has been around for decades. Like any brand, they've had their ups and downs, but in recent years - and IMO - they've been on an 'up' trend. I've had my SR6003 - which, coincidentally, I purchased at Gibby's - for ~4-1/2 years, and it's been solid since Day 1.
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post #20 of 35 Old 07-02-13, 04:53 PM
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Re: My dilemma. Need advise bad im going insane.

Not trying to put a downer on the Marantz SR5007 but to believe that it will actually output 100wats per channel even into two channels is a bit over stated. The receiver only weighs 22lbs so it does not have a very large power supply. I would think realistically it will do about 85wats per channel and even less if driving all 7 channels. That said the speakers you have are quite efficient so it should do just fine as long as your not rocking out your system.

Home theater:
Onkyo 805, Yamaha YDP2006EQ, Samson Servo 600 amp
3 EV Sentry 500 monitors across the front, 4 Mission 762i's Surrounds, SVS PB13U sub, Panasonic BDT220, Harmony 1100, Nintendo WiiU
Panasonic PT-AE8000 on a 120" 2,35:1 fixed screen

Living room system:
Sherwood/Newcastle R972, Mission 765's, SVS SBS02's, A/D/S MS3u sub, Yamaha YDG2030EQ
Yamaha KX-393 Tape deck, CDC 805 CD changer, Panasonic BD60, Sony turntable PS-T20
Panasonic TC-P50ST60, HD-PVR & WDTV Live, Harmony 900

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