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post #1 of 5 Old 04-30-15, 02:32 PM Thread Starter
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Stosh
 
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New install in sunroom

Greetings. I'd appreciate some input from the experienced! I built a new addition to my house last year. It's a sunroom with 2x6 construction, insulated, crawl space underneath (about 750 cu ft), etc. The room was designed as a view to the back yard, not a home theater. Here's the room last year before we occupied it.



The 2 vertical posts were structurally necessary, so I had the builder turn them into shelves figuring the floor space would be for a sub. Planning ahead, right? I've wanted an IB subwoofer for about 5 years now and was getting closer to pulling the trigger here lately. My problem is that now the sunroom is where we spend 97% of our at-home awake time. Why put an IB sub in my living room that I'm never in anymore? The existing sub is a JBL pro 15" 2226 driver in a ported box tuned to 40Hz.
Here is the room occupied. Pardon the mess - kids!




As usual, there are several issues involved with installing an IB sub in this room.
This room was built for looks. Sound treatments are almost certainly out of the question.
The floor is heated with electric heat pads. I'm not sure if they can be cut/repaired. I have my installer looking in to this.
There are no heat pads under the existing sub. If I remove the sub and cut my hole there, that's an option, but from all the reading I've done, I'm supposed to move that thing around the room and test for the best location. Calibrated mic is on the way.
If I did put the IB sub under the floor, under the shelves, would the shelves somehow interfere with airflow and/or sound capability of the new sub?

I'd like to build a cube manifold with 4 Fi IB318s. What do people normally do for floor installations? The joists are on 16" centers. A 7 sq ft. unobstructed hole would get too long. Is it OK to straddle a floor joist? What would be the minimum "acceptable" area opening?

Has anyone done an IB sub in a room with this much glass? Does this present any problems?
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post #2 of 5 Old 04-30-15, 03:20 PM
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Re: New install in sunroom

This much I can tell you: Glass is an issue only with the mid and high frequencies, not bass. And even if there were no glass, you still have all that ceramic tile, which is almost as bad, acoustically-speaking (again, the upper frequencies not bass). Don’t get me wrong, it’s a beautiful room and looks absolutely stunning visually, but I’ll bet it’s a serious echo-chamber.

Based on what the pictures show I’m going to hazard a guess that you won’t be able to get any viable bass measurements generated from anywhere in the listening area (“viable” meaning something reasonably smooth without a lot of nulls). On top of that, the room is huge which will require a ton of speakers for a good IB system. I’ll be shocked if four will get the job done.

Regards,
Wayne



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post #3 of 5 Old 04-30-15, 04:52 PM Thread Starter
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Re: New install in sunroom

The windows were custom ordered. I chose them for their ratio of highest transmission of short wave infrared (heat from the sun) to highest reflection of long wave infrared (air temp) which gives excellent r-value. These happened to be 2-pane laminated windows that are both hurricane proof (impact and shatter resistant) and also sound proof. I don't know if this means they reflect or absorb sound. But I can tell you that my sunroom sounds heavenly compared to my normal-sized, drywall living room. Flutter echo on the living room is just horrible. I agree tile is an enemy, but I think the size of the sunroom, odd angles, half-wall, and lots of plants are going to help the acoustics a little.

As for 4 18" drivers possibly not being enough - that surprised me. Isn't that going to be something like 6x-8x the capability of my single 15"? I want an amazing experience, but I'm not as young as I used to be. Has anyone done IB subs in a large room or heaven forbid, an open area like outside? Even outside, an IB sub is one of the most efficient ways to create bass SPL, right? What's the absolute worst it could be? Inverse square law?

As for getting viable bass measurements from the listening area, I have absolutely no experience with this. I guess I'll have to see what happens when I get the mic.

Thanks for the kind words on the sunroom and for the help.
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post #4 of 5 Old 04-30-15, 06:50 PM
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Re: New install in sunroom

Quote:
Stosh wrote: View Post
These happened to be 2-pane laminated windows that are both hurricane proof (impact and shatter resistant) and also sound proof. I don't know if this means they reflect or absorb sound.
Neither. It means they block sound from getting past them. IOW, you can probably crank your system up and go outside and you won’t hear anything from inside. The windows in my living room are “regular,” and you can definitely hear the HT system when outside.


Quote:
As for 4 18" drivers possibly not being enough - that surprised me. Isn't that going to be something like 6x-8x the capability of my single 15"?

Even outside, an IB sub is one of the most efficient ways to create bass SPL, right? What's the absolute worst it could be? Inverse square law?
No, it’s not multiples of your single 15” sub. The thing with IB systems is that they don’t have any internal back pressure from a box to help keep the drivers’ excursion under control, like regular subs do. So, it’s easy to for them to “unload” or be overdriven.

This is why IBs typically use multiple drivers. All things being equal – say, a specific driver in a sealed or ported box compared to the same driver in an IB – it actually takes more of the same drivers in an IB to equal the output of the one in a box. Since the IB drivers can’t be driven as hard, it takes more of them to equal the output of a regular sub.

So basically in an IB system you have to have enough drivers so that no single one works too hard. They can’t be driven anywhere near their maximum excursion.

So, “the worst it could be” is that your IB doesn’t have enough drivers and overloads all the time.

Good luck with your project, hopefully others will chime in who are more knowledgeable about IBs than I am.

Regards,
Wayne



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post #5 of 5 Old 05-25-15, 10:05 PM
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Re: New install in sunroom

I have an ib with 2 si 24s in the ceiling so I do have a bit of experience.

The question I have is how does the sub you have in there now sound. Can you feel it/hear the bass with authority or is is hardly noticeable? This will tell you a lot about the room and what can probably be done.
As was stated already, your going to need multiple subs which you are already going to use but there is also the option to place 2 different manifolds in the room with 4 subs. Utilizing two smaller manifolds with 2 subs each is perfectly acceptable and is used by many people.

I placed my manifold in between ceiling joists which are about 16 on center. the manifold was wide enough to fit between the joist and it was about 4 inches wider than the sub. Meaning the manifold was 14.5 inches wide, 28 inches across and about 36 inches tall.

You can also do an outie sub that will look like your subs now but have two speakers facing into the room with the manifold opening facing down into the crawl space.

I have not heard the speakers you are using but with the amount of people using them 4 seems to be the sweet spot either in a single manifold or separated.

But again lets start with how your sub is performing now.
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