Wife said "YES" to holes in walls!!! (new to IB, plz hlp) - Page 5 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

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post #41 of 66 Old 01-28-10, 04:25 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Wife said "YES" to holes in walls!!! (new to IB, plz hlp)

Ok, another question for you all. When I look at these plots, I am looking at what the SPL would be for a given input power source. Obviously these 18" drivers can get louder than what I have, but that's at peak volume. If I rarely, if ever am hitting above 100dB, what difference will these 18s or even 4 or 8 DPL-15s do for me? Are you strickly adding volume? And if with a BFD you can contour these plots a bit, couldn't you make them all about the same response curve? If that's the case then isn't the difference between driver TYPE and NUMBER simply a matter of max volume and how much EQ is necessary to get the curve you want? The advantage the DPLs have so far over anything else I've modeled is that they don't drop off as much as anybody else's below 30Hz-ish. I know what I have will be ok for now, I'm just curious to know these answers.

Thanks in advance.

Last edited by dascth; 01-28-10 at 04:30 PM.
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post #42 of 66 Old 01-29-10, 10:05 AM
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Re: Wife said "YES" to holes in walls!!! (new to IB, plz hlp)

Multiple drivers adds headroom capability and sensitivity. It allows the individual drivers to work less hard which keeps distortion lower and other compression effects. I think you may be surprised at how hard you end up driving that single pair of 15's. Driver for driver IB is not a huge output monster. That's why you always see 4 or 8 drivers being used.

I don't know how well those 2 15's are going to do when trying to hit 100db at the listening position in the 10-25hz range. You may run out of excursion. IB's are always mechanically limited (excursion at the low end). I'm not trying to freak you out, just saying to take your time learning where the limits are with them when you get them installed.

I would've recommended the Fi IB 18's if you hadn't already purchased the DPL's. Yes I would've still recommended 4 too as they come in packs of 4 for $800 and you shouldn't have to ever worry about headroom with that much displacement. Add one EP2500 to drive all 4 and you have an incredible reference capable bass system for less than $1300 total.
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post #43 of 66 Old 01-29-10, 10:27 AM
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Re: Wife said "YES" to holes in walls!!! (new to IB, plz hlp)

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Multiple drivers adds headroom capability and sensitivity. It allows the individual drivers to work less hard which keeps distortion lower and other compression effects. I think you may be surprised at how hard you end up driving that single pair of 15's. Driver for driver IB is not a huge output monster. That's why you always see 4 or 8 drivers being used.

I don't know how well those 2 15's are going to do when trying to hit 100db at the listening position in the 10-25hz range. You may run out of excursion. IB's are always mechanically limited (excursion at the low end). I'm not trying to freak you out, just saying to take your time learning where the limits are with them when you get them installed.
but a single 12" could already be way more than enough
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post #44 of 66 Old 01-29-10, 11:37 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Wife said "YES" to holes in walls!!! (new to IB, plz hlp)

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Ricci wrote: View Post
Multiple drivers adds headroom capability and sensitivity. It allows the individual drivers to work less hard which keeps distortion lower and other compression effects. I think you may be surprised at how hard you end up driving that single pair of 15's. Driver for driver IB is not a huge output monster. That's why you always see 4 or 8 drivers being used.

I don't know how well those 2 15's are going to do when trying to hit 100db at the listening position in the 10-25hz range. You may run out of excursion. IB's are always mechanically limited (excursion at the low end). I'm not trying to freak you out, just saying to take your time learning where the limits are with them when you get them installed.

I would've recommended the Fi IB 18's if you hadn't already purchased the DPL's. Yes I would've still recommended 4 too as they come in packs of 4 for $800 and you shouldn't have to ever worry about headroom with that much displacement. Add one EP2500 to drive all 4 and you have an incredible reference capable bass system for less than $1300 total.
Yeah, I hear ya. I spent $370 on drivers, $800 is a hole 'nuther ballpark. I don't think I'd be able to mount 4 of them in a cube though as they're too big for the 16" gaps between studs in the roof. I'd have to go higher which I don't think I can. That'd take me back to the two hole idea.

The one thing I have going for me is that the DPL-15s do relatively better than any of the other mentioned drivers at the <20Hz range. All the others drop off like mad. So the only thing "leaning my way" is the lower distortion I'll get for the better un-eq'd low end, and the 8ohm impedence which should be nice and easy on my amp. That and the fact that I'm not going to be in bridged mode which is like 10x worse in the distortion category.

I'll pull out the cliche "this is a journey" idea now and say that I will always be saving money for fun stuff. I'm 29 and this is my first attempt. I'm sure each house I own will have a nice IB install in it. Wish me luck, everything arrives today! I'll take pics.
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post #45 of 66 Old 01-29-10, 05:06 PM
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Re: Wife said "YES" to holes in walls!!! (new to IB, plz hlp)

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but a single 12" could already be way more than enough
It really depends on the volume of the room, the driver used and the design.

A JL Audio 12w7 would easily fill most rooms in the proper box. But it's no ordinary sub either. The Infinity Perfect Kappa sub is another driver capable of filling a room. Even the Dayton Reference drivers are capable. Everyone has different wants in their theater and a great 12" design is vastly superior to the majority of commercial designs on the market today. SVS only has one sub with a driver bigger than 12. As does JL Audio and many other manufacturers.

Few people ever need a tapped horn Maelstrom 21" to fill their wants either. Not that the world can't enjoy such a beautiful sub. Consider what this guy is coming from I think 2 15" will more than satisfy him for now.
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post #46 of 66 Old 01-30-10, 08:32 AM
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Re: Wife said "YES" to holes in walls!!! (new to IB, plz hlp)

the Eclipse 8" should do it, or the Tang Band 8"
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post #47 of 66 Old 01-31-10, 01:41 PM
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Re: Wife said "YES" to holes in walls!!! (new to IB, plz hlp)

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I'll pull out the cliche "this is a journey" idea now and say that I will always be saving money for fun stuff. I'm 29 and this is my first attempt. I'm sure each house I own will have a nice IB install in it. Wish me luck, everything arrives today! I'll take pics.
Consider good luck wished. Take your time with the build and keep us updated.
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post #48 of 66 Old 02-01-10, 01:28 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Wife said "YES" to holes in walls!!! (new to IB, plz hlp)

Thanks all for the motivation! Before I forget, in WinISD do I select "normal" or "iso-barik" for this opposed-speaker manifold type of IB? Gives much higher levels on normal than iso-barik. Everyone seems to be using normal, while I assumed iso-barik.

So I spent Saturday working on my design, cutting/laminating panels, and getting the wall wiring done. I had to redesign a little bit. When I got up in the attic, I noticed that there was an extra beam I didn't know about (see pic below) and that the roof is very close to the internal ceiling. As you can see, the triangle support beams get in the way of "setting" a manifold box on top of the normal trusses. I also have that extra beam for some reason breaking up my 24" working space into a smaller 17.5" working space. Actually the beam isn't completely straight so it's 17.25" up to 17.5" of workspace. Since the left side of my box is going to have to sit next to the left truss (instead of sit on it) that cuts my space down to 16" since the laminated panels are 1.5" wide. The drivers are 15.5" so 16" didn't give me much structural support to my box with only .25" inches on each side of the driver. SO, I decided on something else. I'm going to take what was going to be the box's right panel and nail it into the "slot" you see between the right-most truss and the extra beam (nailed to the extra beam, not the truss). I'll have to move that power cable obviously. Then I'll assemble the rest of the manifold and drag it up there and nail it to that right panel. That'll make my box wider by the width of that 2x4 (1.75"). That moves me from 15.5" to 17.25" (up to 17.5") wide panels which I can deal with to mount my drivers in. You can see a couple of my panels in the second picture. They are 20" by 17.5" panels. One is 17.25". My top panel will have to be trapezoidal. Errrghh...

I may also not install the customary 2x4 cross beams that people use to set the box on top of. Since the left wall will go all the way down to the drywall, I'm thinking of having the entire box rest flush with the drywall. Obviously since my right panel is on the other side of that extra beam, I will have to "notch" the bottom to fit around the beam. The box would then be nailed to the trusses instead of using tie plates.

Any thoughts? I've gotta go to work tomorrow, but I might assemble my manifold as much as possible in the evening. That laminated wood is heavy; it's going to be a PITA to drag up into the attic and into that space. I don't know exactly how I'm going to have room to screw it in without contorting my body to great degrees. Par for the course?


Install location is before the cross beam with the power on it. If you look at the living room pic from page 1, this area is right above the right speaker stand.


Drivers and some prelaminated mdf/osd panels:


A few panels propped up to show shape:
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post #49 of 66 Old 02-01-10, 01:50 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Wife said "YES" to holes in walls!!! (new to IB, plz hlp)

Pic of comparison between something kinda similar to my PS-1000 (250W, 10", 4th order bandpass in teal), my DPL-15 x 2 IB project (yellow), SS-18 x 2 IB (purple), Maelstrom 21 x 1 IB (green), and an insane 12 driver IB setup (blue) that I found here: http://www.subwoofer-builder.com/ib.htm
All but linked IB setup and the 10" boxed sub are assuming 550W RMS. Box size set to 10000L for IBs. I used normal, not iso-barik.




How the picture changes when I upgrade to 4 DPL-15s instead of 2, yellow curve now ROCKS:

Last edited by dascth; 02-01-10 at 02:03 AM.
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post #50 of 66 Old 02-01-10, 01:59 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Wife said "YES" to holes in walls!!! (new to IB, plz hlp)

I'm not regretting at all going with the DPL-15s after looking at these yellow plots lines. I'll see what I think once it's all installed and tested though. Man I hope I don't fubar anything!
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