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12-02-16 01:13 PM
AudiocRaver
Re: GIK Acoustics DIY Acoustical Panel Build Thread

I follow you, and can see how you would come to that conclusion. My own work has led to prioritizing the front wall, and still hitting the other early reflection points, but with simple foam square treatments, leading to the same result. I have done nothing with the ceiling and feel no need to, per the reasons given in this previous post (ceiling reflections are "SS&I friendly"). I have been very impressed by the improvement the GIK panels have given, along with the batting behind them on the wall. More on that later...

Edit: SS&I were already good, so one can easily wonder how much an improvement will be gained by treatments like were recently added. Then you try them, and ZOWIE! I am SO glad I did it!
12-01-16 06:05 PM
ellisr63
Re: GIK Acoustics DIY Acoustical Panel Build Thread

Quote:
AudiocRaver wrote: View Post
Early reflections are your enemy, unless they are your friend.

If they
  • arrive from the same pan location as the direct wave (left-to-right pan), not significantly outside of or inside of the L & R speaker listening angle
  • arrive at the same delay time within a few microseconds vs the direct wave (example: L & R direct waves arrive at a carefully matched 12 mS and first reflected waves arrive at a carefully matched 10 mS +/- 10 uS or so later)
All will work together to create a killer soundstage, assuming "all else" is in order.
I think what I should have said was that with the first reflection points covered(ceiling and side walls)...the front wall made an even bigger difference when it was covered(we were not expecting as much of a difference as it made).
12-01-16 01:21 PM
AudiocRaver
Re: GIK Acoustics DIY Acoustical Panel Build Thread

Quote:
Savjac wrote: View Post
Wow, very interesting AudioCraver, thank you so much for sharing. It makes me want to get off my behind and do the same thing.

I will be a bit of a pain and when you hear the result you will wonder why you waited so long.
12-01-16 01:18 PM
AudiocRaver
Re: GIK Acoustics DIY Acoustical Panel Build Thread

Quote:
ellisr63 wrote: View Post
Funny that you mention that as I was just talking with a friend of mine earlier today, and we both agree that the front wall placement of acoustic panels made a bigger improvement in getting our setups sounding right than the first reflection panels did. In my friends setup he is listening in nearfield vs my 12' MLP.
Early reflections are your enemy, unless they are your friend.

If they
  • arrive from the same pan location as the direct wave (left-to-right pan), not significantly outside of or inside of the L & R speaker listening angle
  • arrive at the same delay time within a few microseconds vs the direct wave (example: L & R direct waves arrive at a carefully matched 12 mS and first reflected waves arrive at a carefully matched 10 mS +/- 10 uS or so later)
All will work together to create a killer soundstage, assuming "all else" is in order.
11-30-16 10:34 PM
Savjac
Re: GIK Acoustics DIY Acoustical Panel Build Thread

Wow, very interesting AudioCraver, thank you so much for sharing. It makes me want to get off my behind and do the same thing.

11-30-16 10:03 PM
ellisr63
Re: GIK Acoustics DIY Acoustical Panel Build Thread

Quote:
AudiocRaver wrote: View Post
Here is a rough diagram of the room layout, with dimensions.

Attachment 132434



I do need to take some REW measurements. I wanted to get a few before adding the batting on the front wall, then forgot. No way am I going to take that down just for a few measurements. I will get what I can.
Funny that you mention that as I was just talking with a friend of mine earlier today, and we both agree that the front wall placement of acoustic panels made a bigger improvement in getting our setups sounding right than the first reflection panels did. In my friends setup he is listening in nearfield vs my 12' MLP.
11-30-16 09:29 PM
AudiocRaver
Re: GIK Acoustics DIY Acoustical Panel Build Thread

Here is a rough diagram of the room layout, with dimensions.

Attachment 132434



I do need to take some REW measurements. I wanted to get a few before adding the batting on the front wall, then forgot. No way am I going to take that down just for a few measurements. I will get what I can.
11-30-16 06:12 PM
AudiocRaver
Re: GIK Acoustics DIY Acoustical Panel Build Thread

Quote:
ellisr63 wrote: View Post
Looking great Wayne! When I made mine I used Roxul (4" total thickness per panel), and used 1"x4" for the frame. I then made a ledge for the rear of the panel so when I pushed the Roxul in it went flush to the rear. I also picked up some cheap cotton material from Jo Annes, and stapled that to the rear of the panels to keep everything nice and sanitary. My panels ended up with the Roxul sticking out the front a bit, but it gave me a rounded/angled corner which works out well in my situation...plus it sits flush against the wall. Now I know some people suggest spacing the panels out from the wall to make them more effective, but I didn't. Have you tried that to see how it effects the sound?
Yes, it does make the panel absorption more effective and primarily helps tighten up the bass and sharpen the soundstage. Standing the panels at the angle shown with the small amount of reflection going back to the speaker and not toward the LP makes a BIG difference in the image clarity and the sharpening of the soundstage. In my opinion, it is a major point of the design.

Quote:
I also found that Redwood works better than Pine (IMO) as it is lighter, and safer for first reflection panels hanging over your head. In hindsight I would make all my panels from Redwood (currently only the ceiling ones are redwood), but we learn from our DIY projects.
Cool idea on the redwood, probably looks sharp too.

Quote:
Are you going to test out to see if the holes on the side of the panels make a difference vs solid sides?
Nope, bigger fish to fry. I doubt it would make a difference.
11-30-16 05:59 PM
AudiocRaver
Re: GIK Acoustics DIY Acoustical Panel Build Thread

Quote:
Tonto wrote: View Post
Is this the front wall, & between the front speakers? Sorry if you states this earlier, don't remember. Can we see a pic that's wide enough to see the speakers in it?
OK, it's a little embarrassing to show that much of the turmoil of the room, but here it is. The speakers are the older MartinLogan ESLs, on the left and right sides of the picture, in what I consider a mid-field configuration, partly driven by the room and partly by personal preference. Dimensions: A=LP-to-speaker-plane=45in; B=center-to-center-of-the-electrostatic-panels=67in; speaker-plane-to-wall=64in; C=LP-to-wall=109in; the width of the front wall being covered by the leaning GIK panekls is about 5.5 ft.
Attachment 132410

And of course a BIG thanks to GIK for the great kits and the great design.
Attachment 132418
11-30-16 11:29 AM
ellisr63
Re: GIK Acoustics DIY Acoustical Panel Build Thread

Looking great Wayne! When I made mine I used Roxul (4" total thickness per panel), and used 1"x4" for the frame. I then made a ledge for the rear of the panel so when I pushed the Roxul in it went flush to the rear. I also picked up some cheap cotton material from Jo Annes, and stapled that to the rear of the panels to keep everything nice and sanitary. My panels ended up with the Roxul sticking out the front a bit, but it gave me a rounded/angled corner which works out well in my situation...plus it sits flush against the wall. Now I know some people suggest spacing the panels out from the wall to make them more effective, but I didn't. Have you tried that to see how it effects the sound? I also found that Redwood works better than Pine (IMO) as it is lighter, and safer for first reflection panels hanging over your head. In hindsight I would make all my panels from Redwood (currently only the ceiling ones are redwood), but we learn from our DIY projects.

Are you going to test out to see if the holes on the side of the panels make a difference vs solid sides?
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