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  Topic Review (Newest First)
05-31-14 09:44 AM
rab-byte Yes I agree with how HDMI came about. But I'm expressing why it is not going anywhere soon.

Guess I've been lucky with my installs. Failed cables represent a very low % of our redos... this starts to get into price points. I'm not about to debate picture/sound quality in a digital cable. There's very little to be said (that horse has been beaten to death.) but build quality absolutely does matter. If the cable is going into the walk then a well made CL rated cable is the right choice. We sell AQ cables, I never spec one over 25' any longer I'm using Atlona extenders and so far failed cables haven't really been an issue. I do make it a point to put conduit in any time I wont be able to get to the wire later. Really the only times I'm seeing cable failure is when it's in a place that has an articulating mount and then we simply zip tie the cables with some slack to the arm.
05-31-14 03:14 AM
gazoink
Re: Cable Types Explained

Quote:
rab-byte wrote: View Post
The issue that DHBaseT is up against is all the cable companies and retailers who are making bank on HDMI sales. If that revenue stream dried up you'd see more markup on core gear. TVs margin has eroded down to nothing so IMO that's the major hurdle they have to contend with.
Hmmm. An interesting idea. But in reality HDMI is here because studios really wanted another means of copy protection. Releasing material that could be easily digitally cloned with a simple cable had them all pretty freaked. HDMI took care of that with HDCP. Otherwise, we had a single-cable audio-video solution already: Firewire. Yes, it needed to be bumped up a bit. SDI was also already there, and really simple: a single 75 ohm coax, though technically not a single cable interface. But no HDCP on either. Hence, an industry "consortium" push for HDMI.

I don't see cable companies and retailers driving HDMI as a core tech. It's there because it got standardized, and there was no competition. It's cheap, in part, because it propagated. The same thing could happen with HDBaseT, but it's got a big hurdle to get it propagated, and that is a well-established interface, HDMI. To beat HDMI it has to be nearly as ubiquitous, and that would mean transition product with both interfaces, which is even more expensive. I dunno, I'd like to see HDBaseT win, but it's second-in, and expensive. Not sure how long that might take.
Quote:
rab-byte wrote: View Post
That said, HDMI has gotten much better over the years and while handshake issues still come up yet are far less frequent. It wasn't that long ago that some brands wouldn't play nice together with HDMI.
Well, better, yes, good, no. HDMI problems still represent the greatest percentage of our service calls, right behind storm damage. There are no affordable diagnostic tools for the field tech, and people insist on burying HDMI cables in their walls without raceway. Do that with an active cable, and you're in for a pricy problem when it fails. And, so far, we've seen active cables fail a lot. If the cable buried in the wall was just wire, not active, it wouldn't fail.
05-30-14 08:36 PM
rab-byte
Quote:
gazoink wrote: View Post
Yes, but the HDBaseT hurdle to leap is cost. There are cheaper solutions now, much cheaper. It's got a ways to go downward. Getting HDBaseT in device will certainly happen, though. Then my dream may come true..the end of HDMI's blight on humanity.
The issue that DHBaseT is up against is all the cable companies and retailers who are making bank on HDMI sales. If that revenue stream dried up you'd see more markup on core gear. TVs margin has eroded down to nothing so IMO that's the major hurdle they have to contend with.

That said, HDMI has gotten much better over the years and while handshake issues still come up yet are far less frequent. It wasn't that long ago that some brands wouldn't play nice together with HDMI.
05-30-14 07:30 PM
gazoink
Re: Cable Types Explained

Quote:
rab-byte wrote: View Post
They've already invented it
Search HDBaseT and HDBaseT-Light

It's the tech that's used in the extenders now. You'll see rollout in the coming years and with LED using so little power HTBaseT uses POE!
Yes, but the HDBaseT hurdle to leap is cost. There are cheaper solutions now, much cheaper. It's got a ways to go downward. Getting HDBaseT in device will certainly happen, though. Then my dream may come true..the end of HDMI's blight on humanity.
05-30-14 06:39 PM
rab-byte They've already invented it
Search HDBaseT and HDBaseT-Light

It's the tech that's used in the extenders now. You'll see rollout in the coming years and with LED using so little power HTBaseT uses POE!
05-30-14 04:59 PM
gazoink
Re: Cable Types Explained

Quote:
macromicroman wrote: View Post
Yes that would be great, but then all of us would have to go and buy new receivers of processors. That and going out to get a new 4K TV will certainly get the economy going.
So....we'll all have to get new gear. Who doesn't like new gear? Show of hands...

At least I'm waiting with 4K displays until they get their standards figured out. Oh, and there actually is 4K (other than Sony). I see the 4K (and yes I do refuse to call it Ultra HD...because what will we call 8K? Super Duper Ultra HD?) as a big stinger for the early adopters.
05-30-14 03:43 PM
macromicroman
Re: Cable Types Explained

Quote:
gazoink wrote: View Post
Yes, those are great, I keep all 4 flavors in stock. You still have the problem of the force of a non-flexible cable breaking one of the 19 tiny connections from the HDMI connector to the HDMI board in an AVR. It's a serious design flaw with HDMI..only one of many. The connector is actually a terrible match with the typical cable. No idea what they were thinking, probably small and cheap.

Today we have Cat5e/Cat6 HDMI extenders that use one Cat cable for the entire HDMI 1.4a spec, including IR pass through, ARC, and even Ethernet. If that can be done on one 4 pair Cat cable, then I want to eliminate the HDMI connector and cable all together, stick the extender technology in the AVR and just use RJ45 on gear with 8P8C wired T568B for cables. It would be simple, the cables would be generic and cheap, without the length limits. Yup, the AVR and source gear would cost a little more for a while, but getting rid of HDMI would be a good thing long term.

...and then I woke up.
Yes that would be great, but then all of us would have to go and buy new receivers of processors. That and going out to get a new 4K TV will certainly get the economy going.
05-30-14 01:03 PM
gazoink
Re: Cable Types Explained

Quote:
macromicroman wrote: View Post
Yes, I try to avoid damage to the HDMI inputs by using little 90 degree adapters that you can buy for about $2.00. They fit into the HDMI input on the device and the cable them goes into them. Seems to help and also seems to be a better connection.
Yes, those are great, I keep all 4 flavors in stock. You still have the problem of the force of a non-flexible cable breaking one of the 19 tiny connections from the HDMI connector to the HDMI board in an AVR. It's a serious design flaw with HDMI..only one of many. The connector is actually a terrible match with the typical cable. No idea what they were thinking, probably small and cheap.

Today we have Cat5e/Cat6 HDMI extenders that use one Cat cable for the entire HDMI 1.4a spec, including IR pass through, ARC, and even Ethernet. If that can be done on one 4 pair Cat cable, then I want to eliminate the HDMI connector and cable all together, stick the extender technology in the AVR and just use RJ45 on gear with 8P8C wired T568B for cables. It would be simple, the cables would be generic and cheap, without the length limits. Yup, the AVR and source gear would cost a little more for a while, but getting rid of HDMI would be a good thing long term.

...and then I woke up.
05-30-14 09:28 AM
macromicroman
Re: Cable Types Explained

Yes, I try to avoid damage to the HDMI inputs by using little 90 degree adapters that you can buy for about $2.00. They fit into the HDMI input on the device and the cable them goes into them. Seems to help and also seems to be a better connection.
05-29-14 09:16 PM
gazoink
Re: Cable Types Explained

Quote:
macromicroman wrote: View Post
Thanks for the information of Redmere cables. I only have runs of one meter or less so I guess I really do not need them.

Thanks
The thin cable of Redmere is actually an advantage even in short cables. Short, thick, stiff cables can and do damage HDMI connectors in devices...a very expensive fix.
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