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  Topic Review (Newest First)
02-21-08 09:14 PM
GollyJer
Re: Equalizing the average listening position [WARNING high graph count ahead]

Yeah, the FBQ doesn't have presets. I'm hoping to get something like this set up with my HTPC for the next go round. I'm assuming it'll have unlimited presets.
02-21-08 08:09 PM
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
Re: Equalizing the average listening position [WARNING high graph count ahead]


Oops, didn’t know that…

Regards,
Wayne
02-21-08 08:01 PM
brucek
Re: Equalizing the average listening position [WARNING high graph count ahead]

Quote:
I think it's a great idea to have two presets.
I thought the FBQ only had one memory slot - where BFD has ten?

brucek
02-21-08 07:48 PM
GollyJer
Re: Equalizing the average listening position [WARNING high graph count ahead]

First of all, thanks for all the comments guys. The interaction on this forum is top notch.

Quote:
mswlogo wrote: View Post
Nice job presenting, that's for sure.

I disagree with your comment #3. Your sweet spot being away from walls is a good thing. In fact #2 and #3 conflict. Large openings to other rooms is not such a bad thing.

Why didn't you just build filters off the average curve directly than try to find a test point closest to it?

I would sweep to 500hz and see how your main speakers are blending in.
Thanks.
Comment #3 is speaking towards the gray and orange position (next to the wall).
At this point I think building filters for the average curve then remeasuring all positions to recalculate the average is probably the best process.
Blending the mains is my next major area of understanding to tackle. They always seem to take way off (on the graph, not necessarily acoustically) when testing.

Quote:
tonyvdb wrote: View Post
Are they pointed just the way you have them drawn on the diagram?
If so I would turn them in towards the center of the room (approximately the coffee table area) this will give you far better coverage of the seating on the side wall.
They were pointed in a little but I've now pointed them in a little more. I generally have 4 people on the couch while watching.

Quote:
brucek wrote: View Post
Take your multiple measures, create an average and let REW work on that new average plot to show you the filters (along with your manual tweaking) to get to a reasonable response on the computer. Enter the filters and redo your multiple measures and see how you feel about it. Then tweak a bit.
Agreed. This is how I will approach this from now on.

Quote:
imbeaujp wrote: View Post
Hello, why don't you place your sub in the opposite front corner ?
The diagram isn't perfectly to scale regarding door placement and swing direction. The doors over there actually swing in and are closer to the left wall than shown. There's no way the sub would fit.

Quote:
Wayne A. Pflughaupt wrote: View Post

Jeremy,

Judging from the bandwidth settings you mentioned, and seeing their effects on the graphs, I take it you’re using the FBQ, not the BFD?
Correct. I updated my signature (now that I can) with specs so it will be easier to identify such things.


Quote:
Wayne A. Pflughaupt wrote: View Post
From the looks of your graph, it looks like you’re using this filter to raise the level of everything below 40 Hz – i.e. nearly half of the sub’s entire range. Not the best way to use an equalizer. It would be better to instead realign your Target Curve down to ~75-78 dB.

I suggest averaging the blue, green and purple positions. I wouldn’t worry about the orange and gray. Those are crummy viewing positions anyway, let them hear crummy bass, too.
All good advice. This is exactly the way I'll approach curve adjustment in the next go round.

Quote:
Sonnie wrote: View Post
I'd be selfish most of the time. How often does anyone else sit in that room with you? I suspect most people would never be able to tell a bit a difference. I have pretty much always equalized my main listening position and anyone that has ever sit in any other seats still always say it is great.

The idea to average a couple to three positions might be an option if you have a second preset where you can store it for when that audiophile buddy comes to visit he will get a good response, otherwise, I would shoot for the primary position only.
Most of the time two, but very often at least four people are sitting in the room. You're right in assuming that they probably can't tell the difference though. Being selfish seems to be a common theme around here. I'm almost always sitting in between purple and green which happen to have the best curves at the moment. I think it's a great idea to have two presets. One where I optimize for the average of Blue, Green, and Purple, and one where I optimize my alone time listening position.

Thanks again for all the advice guys.
-Jeremy
02-21-08 05:20 PM
Sonnie
Re: Equalizing the average listening position [WARNING high graph count ahead]

Quote:
brucek wrote: View Post
You may find that you have to be a bit selfish about the sweet rectangle in the middle and let people you don't like sit in the side seats. If you don't you may find everyone is dissatisfied.
Quote:
Wayne A. Pflughaupt wrote: View Post

I suggest averaging the blue, green and purple positions. I wouldn’t worry about the orange and gray. Those are crummy viewing positions anyway, let them hear crummy bass, too.

You could then set up a second program on the equalizer and EQ only for the sweet spot, and use that one when you’re viewing or listening to music alone.
I'd be selfish most of the time. How often does anyone else sit in that room with you? I suspect most people would never be able to tell a bit a difference. I have pretty much always equalized my main listening position and anyone that has ever sit in any other seats still always say it is great.

The idea to average a couple to three positions might be an option if you have a second preset where you can store it for when that audiophile buddy comes to visit he will get a good response, otherwise, I would shoot for the primary position only.
02-21-08 04:59 PM
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
Re: Equalizing the average listening position [WARNING high graph count ahead]


Jeremy,

Judging from the bandwidth settings you mentioned, and seeing their effects on the graphs, I take it you’re using the FBQ, not the BFD?

Quote:
The first I settled on was a 6.5db gain at 20 Hz with a bandwidth of 3.
From the looks of your graph, it looks like you’re using this filter to raise the level of everything below 40 Hz – i.e. nearly half of the sub’s entire range. Not the best way to use an equalizer. It would be better to instead realign your Target Curve down to ~75-78 dB.

I suggest averaging the blue, green and purple positions. I wouldn’t worry about the orange and gray. Those are crummy viewing positions anyway, let them hear crummy bass, too.

You could then set up a second program on the equalizer and EQ only for the sweet spot, and use that one when you’re viewing or listening to music alone.

I agree with Jean-Pierre’s recommendation to try different placements. Sometimes moving the sub a few feet from the corner down one wall or the other can smooth things out, and still be close enough to it to realize the improved extension and SPL corners give.

Regards,
Wayne
02-20-08 06:34 PM
imbeaujp
Re: Equalizing the average listening position [WARNING high graph count ahead]

Hello,

Why don't you place your sub in the opposite front corner ?

The distance from the listening position(s) will be more equal ?
02-20-08 06:27 PM
brucek
Re: Equalizing the average listening position [WARNING high graph count ahead]

Quote:
Why didn't you just build filters off the average curve directly than try to find a test point closest to it?
Agreed.The average of multiple measurements will not have the same attributes as a spot you find that happens to match it. The spot you find may have a dip that wouldn't respond to gain if you threw a jet engine at it or any other number of problems that simply don't agree with an average.

Take your multiple measures, create an average and let REW work on that new average plot to show you the filters (along with your manual tweaking) to get to a reasonable response on the computer. Enter the filters and redo your multiple measures and see how you feel about it. Then tweak a bit.

You may find that you have to be a bit selfish about the sweet rectangle in the middle and let people you don't like sit in the side seats. If you don't you may find everyone is dissatisfied.

Also watch entering too much gain. Also note that filters with a BW less than 5 are getting a bit narrow and won't be that effective over a large area.

brucek
02-20-08 05:01 PM
mswlogo
Re: Equalizing the average listening position [WARNING high graph count ahead]

Nice job presenting, that's for sure.

My room is setup very similar except the dinning area is off to the right of sweetspot listener position rather than behind. I think your setup would do better than mine. I do exactly as commented in the previous reply and angle the rears towards center of the room if you have not already.

I disagree with your comment #3. Your sweet spot being away from walls is a good thing. In fact #2 and #3 conflict. Large openings to other rooms is not such a bad thing.

I'm surprised your sub doesn't give you more problems than your graphs show.

Why didn't you just build filters off the average curve directly than try to find a test point closest to it?

I would sweep to 500hz and see how your main speakers are blending in.
02-20-08 04:42 PM
tonyvdb
Re: Equalizing the average listening position [WARNING high graph count ahead]

Yes, Thats a tough setup to work with. May I ask, how do you have your rear speakers placed? Are they pointed just the way you have them drawn on the diagram?
If so I would turn them in towards the center of the room (approximately the coffee table area) this will give you far better coverage of the seating on the side wall.
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