Re: Speaker quest (Final Round?)
Round 12
(second listens and a couple new ones)
I will be using some new music, a lot of it, and a couple of tracks that I have been using already that have proven extremely beneficial to my evaluations. I may not listen to all of them on each speaker (24 tracks total) but they cover a pretty wide musical spectrum and recording quality varies almost as much. For the most part the music I picked is on the upbeat side. Makes the process more positive for me and I think that this music is most likely to reveal flaws in a speakers overall performance.
I am going to stick with the order I listened during auditions, starting off with a couple of seconds...
Paradigm Studio 100
I still like the bass of this speaker, it reaches pretty deep and has nice impact. With the percussive slap style bass you can hear the strings rattling on the neck of the upright with ease. My second listen had a few bright moments where some tracks were rendered thin, or jangley. A couple of songs that usually have a huge expansive atmospheric quality to them sounded a bit narrow on the 100’s, but other recordings had very nice imaging. My original assessment of this speaker still stands with me... more suited to home theater and movies than to music.
Dynaudio Focus 220
Right off I felt more relaxed with this speaker than the studio 100. All the edginess was gone, more of a relaxing listen. Trumpet peaks were more smooth, mid bass was not as punchy, much more of a smooth even sound. Maybe too smooth, though. I missed the sharp highs, but liked the even mids of the Focus 220’s. I still found the low bass to be a little indistinct, not really bad or anything, just a little too slow when pushed to it’s lower limits with music like Beenie Man (dancehall Reggae). They did much better with jazz, rock, and blues. This is still a good all-arounder, but a little expensive for it’s performance if you ask me.
Those two speakers pretty much bookend the sound I am looking for, but neither one is right for me. I asked the salesman if he had anything that was in the same price range and had a sound kind of in between those two. He smiled and directed me to...
Focal Chorus 836-V: (≈$3000)
Trumpets sounded nice here, a little more edge than the Focus 220’s, and not as much as the Studio 100’s. Strings rattled properly against the neck of the acoustic bass when slapped around. Overall sound was clear, and well defined, with a nice balance. A couple of songs in I wonder how high these go, because to me, they sound like they are rolled off at the top with cymbal rides, coming across not quite real. Vocals sounded good, electric bass had a full blanketing sound, not overly punchy but had some impact. Fu Manchu sounded really good on these speakers, guitars were thick and mean. The male vocals of Bill Withers sounded natural. Erykah Badu sounded good on the Focal’s, so did the J.B.’s. Bass tightness was better than the Focus 220’s, depth seemed about the same. They did a very nice job picking up the overtones of electric bass. The tone of Wes Montgomery’s guitar was good but not great. One of the new tracks I brought along was “like a rolling stone” by Jimi Hendrix from the “Jimi plays Monterey” CD. Not a the best recording, but it sounded really bad on these speakers. A couple of songs that I included just to see if i would get the chills, came close on one but not the others. For some reason the Focal 836-V seemed to handle male vocals better than female. They really did peg the “in between” sound (Focus 220 & Studio 100) that I asked for and I liked the overall sound here. Aesthetically, I didn’t care for the “chevron” shaped grills, or the French glitzy feel I got from these speakers. I like the looks of Focals higher-end Electra line much, much better...
Of the three, I actually liked the overall sound of the Focals the best (for music), and the understated look of the Dynaudio's. But, I don’t think any of these three will find a place in my home. If I had a dedicated HT setup, I would seriously be considering the Studio 100’s.
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That was Monday. On Tuesday, as you may already know I had an appointment for some more seconds.....
Usher Be-718 “Tiny Dancer”
First off I really like the way that brass sounds with the Be tweeter, crisp and clear but not edgy or piercing. Cymbal work also comes across nicely. I notice that acoustic bass seems to miss the lowest notes, today, I did not notice this before. If they are present, they are several dB’s lower than they should be. This wouldn’t be any problem whatsoever, if these were used in conjunction with a sub. Listening to “Come Together” I really miss the fullness of the larger floor standers, but feel that they do a good job overall. I got the same feeling of missing the fullness with Fu Manchu. “Ain’t No Sunshine,” by Bill Withers sounded excellent on the Ushers, vocals were full and rich and a big open space was created for the sound-stage. What ever these things lack in depth they make up for in speed, they did a good job separating the bass and kick drum beats, even when they were close together. Somehow the mids started to sound a little on the lean side as I listened to more music on the “Tiny Dancers.” Imaging was good with most music though not great. After hearing the higher-end speakers these are not as impressive as the first listen, though I still think they are quite good for their size. In case anybody wonders, I like them more than the Ascend Sierra’s but I think that the Sierra’s would be a better value.
Era D-14
I wanted to give these a fair shake, because the last time I had listened was right after the Dali Icon’s and I had the impression that their highs were lacking. This time I thought they actually sounded pretty nice. And speaking of pretty, they are very easy on the eyes, high WAF with the Era’s. Very evenly balanced presentation here, everything sounded good across the board. Forgiving, laid-back speaker. Imaging was pretty mediocre, sound was easy to locate as coming out of the speakers. Nothing made me say wow, and nothing sounded really bad. This could be a good, or bad thing depending on your perspective, I want something a bit more dynamic than the Era D-14.
Totem Hawk
This is a hard one to write for a lot of reasons. One, because I still really like this speaker. Two, because I have heard better ones. Three because it does so much really well, and I have found a weakness. The Totem Hawk really delivers a big musical sound out of a small very handsome looking cabinet. I have heard that many people feel that Totem has a bright sound to their speakers and until I listened to them a third time I didn’t have any idea what they were talking about. The Hawks are fairly inefficient speakers, and the low end suffers most if they are not driven with adequate power. The first time I heard them was with 200 watts behind them, the second and third were with 75 watts (if I remember correctly). I still would not consider the Hawk to be a “bright” speaker, though after my last listen I would say that they are indeed voiced with an accent on the high end. The Thiels come to mind as “bright”, The Hawks are detailed and accurate with almost everything I threw at them. Imaging is some of the best at this price. Cymbals, snare drums and pianos sound very real on the Hawks. Vocals also sound very good. Both Erykah Badu and Fu Manchu sound excellent. Guitar tone is right on, and so is the sound of the brass instruments. Bass is fast and tight, though not as full bodied as the more expensive speakers I have heard. One of the new tracks I listened to was “Even After All” by Finley Quaye, it is really a beautiful song and I included it as a song that might give me the chills but it proved to have an additional value. The bass is pretty deep and very full; the Hawks were doing fine, in this department, with every song before this one. I noticed a little bit of distortion while there was a sustained bass note, and then a kick drum beat in the song. Walking up close you could almost see the driver wanting to suck back in but immediately kicking back out to cover the kick drum, producing a distorted “ugthmp” rather than a clean “thump.” It was subtle and only on this song. Overall I still think this is a great speaker, and if I have to compromise on price this may be a good one to settle on. My main concern with the Hawk is that I know I would want to upgrade in a couple of years or sooner. They offered to lend me the pair for an in home audition and i may have to take them up on that. Between the SongTowers and the Hawks, it is a very tough call for me. They both have their strengths and they both have weaknesses.
Dali Helicon 300: (msrp≈$3000)
A couple of people have suggested that I listen to something in the Dali Helicon line and the shop I was at had a pair of of 300’s that had been knocked over by a customer and then repaired. The 400, which I am more interested in, was not in stock, and the dealer told me that these were an older model that has since been updated. Neither of us were sure what the revision included. The Helicon 300’s that I listened to were a similar size to the Usher Be-718’s, and PSB Synchrony’s that had I listened to before. Kind of largish for a “bookshelf” speaker, I guess this size is more commonly referred to as “stand mount.” The cabinets and finish on these Dali’s was top notch; very, very nice looking.
I started with “the Girl From Ipanema” and thought that the male vocal had nice resonance, and instrumentation was crisp, clear and natural sounding. Once again the ribbon tweeters provided ultra clear and crisp cymbal reproduction, but this time without any harshness. So far only the ribbons have provided a truly accurate sound on cymbals. Wes Montgomery’s guitar tone was spot-on. Excellent separation of sound and nice balance. Bongo drums on “Sunny” sounded like hands slapping the skins. This music was very easy to listen to on the Dali’s. Finley Quaye’s “even after all” sounded good here, the guitar tone was exceptional (again), and the bass seemed to reach fairly deep (at least as deep as the Ushers) though was lacking a little fullness (like the Ushers). This lack of fullness seems to be the major difference between the stand-mount and floor standers, they reach almost as deep but lack the body of the floor standers. Miles Davis’ trumpet sounded real, on “All of You,” so did the sax but that did get a little piercing on some of the runs. Slap-style, upright bass string percussive effects sounded good with Medeski, Martin and Wood. The actual bass notes sounded recessed though. With John Lee Hooker everything sounded good, standouts being guitar tone and cymbals, but overall nice balance to the sound. When I played “Come Together” I again missed the fullness of bass and the low end of it, though upper to mid-bass section sounded very good, providing the blanketing feeling that I look for. Guitars sounded really good again, and vocals seemed to be slightly back in the mix like they should be with this song. Fu Manchu sounded good but the high guitar notes were a little piercing. On “ain’t no sunshine”, Bill Withers, when the strings come in they sound excellent, and his vocal sounds quite good here too. Erykah Badu sounds good, except the missing ultra-low notes. Everything else sounded pretty good on these speakers, the Pretenders had a nice little sparkle to their sound, and they did a good job with atmospherics when fed electronic music.
I liked this speaker, though I still want deeper bass from my fronts. I don’t know if I am just getting used to the ribbon tweeter sound or if the Helicons do a better job implementing it, but they sounded really nice to me. I have come to the realization that if you want truly accurate cymbal reproduction, ribbons are the only way to go, they get the sizzle that everything else seems to fall just short of, soft domes being the worst at this singular aspect of sound. This does come at a price though, as every single ribbon I have heard has had at least one harsh or piercing moment with either brass, or with high electric guitar notes. These Dali’s are no exception, though they really are fantastic speakers. Now I really want to hear the 400... or even the 800!
Salk Veracity HT3(starting at $4499)
not the actual ones I heard today but I love this veneer :T
As a result of my correspondence with Jim Salk regarding his SongTowers, and our resultant conversation, he suggested that I give a listen to a pair of HT3’s, and helped me set up an audition. He said flat out that he didn’t want me to buy a pair, because they were well out of my price range, and then added that the HT3 was the speaker that he had developed for himself. He also thought that the HT3 was exactly what I was looking for, and that listening to it would provide a good baseline for my ongoing search... Well Jim, you were right, the HT3’s are pretty much exactly what I am looking for.
So, today I went over to another Salk customer’s house armed with a CD containing a revised edition of the last one I used. I cut back a few songs that I felt were sonically redundant to some of the other material, and brought back “rim shot” because I just had to hear how well the HT3’s would handle it’s depth. I thought it was kind of funny when after I had run through all the tracks, Gary (the owner), asked me “What was track 9 ?! The bass in that one went really low.” Gary had his HT3’s set up with a new Yamaha HT receiver (don’t know the model) that put out 140 watts/channel. Though he had a sub hooked up we did not use it, he said it only got used for movies and that it was too slow to keep up with the HT3’s...
I started with Mile Davis and noted that the tone of his trumpet was very nice, acoustic bass sounded good and the saxophone was right on. Cymbals sounded crisp and clean... sounds familiar right? Well a few minutes into this selection I realized how engaging these speakers were. They have a really nice, balanced sound. Piano has the percussive quality that some speakers don’t get right, brushed snare drum sounds great and is distinct, and clear. Nothing is coming forward, everything is staying in it’s place! Wes Montgomery proved to be a very pleasurable listen on the HT3’s. Since nothing came forward on the last track, I didn’t expect anything to come forward on this one either, but something did... The subtleties. The tone on the guitar was excellent, classic Wes. Kick drum had a nice little punch to it in this song, and cymbals again were sounding really nice. The bongos had the distinct sound of thick hands slapping a skin stretched over a drum, very realistic sound. Next up was Stan Getz, “Girl From Ipanema.” The male vocal at the beginning is smooth and natural sounding, and I notice that the bass is nice and full. When Astrud starts to sing the hair on the back of my neck stands up and I get a little chill flash, her vocal is velvety smooth and inviting (I wrote “soooo, nice”) All the subtleties and nuances of this song are right there, and the imaging is starting to impress me. Then the saxophone comes in and... nice job Jim! The reason this song came to be on my speaker test disk is because the SongTowers gave me a little chill when that sax came in, the HT3’s gave me the whole body version! One or two other speakers have made the hair stand up on the back of my neck but this was full blown chills.
As I sat there basking in the warmth of the rest of this song I managed to note how nice the resonance and sustain was on the piano. Medeski, Martin and Wood were next with some more upbeat contemporary Jazz. The percussive slap bass sounded very good here, as did the Hammond organ. The most significant thing I noticed during this track was the depth that was here, and I hadn’t noticed on any of the other speakers I played this song on last time out. Also deserving of mention was the sound of the light clicks of the drumsticks as they hit the edge of the snare, not a full on rim shot, but a more subtle rhythmic accent to the beat.
The fifth song was “Come Together,” and it came together very well indeed. (sorry ‘bout the pun, I couldn’t resist). I hadn’t heard this song sound this clean before. The sound was full and deliberate. Bass sounded truly great on the HT3’s. Vocal was dead center, drums heavily dampened, cymbals smooth yet crisp. Man, I wanted to crank this up loud to get the full impact of the music, but I didn’t want to impose too much. (Volume level was about where I would normally listen if I were just sitting there reading and listening to music, no where near the volume I would hit if I were left alone to really rock the house. Not a problem at all because these speakers have plenty to offer even at low volume levels. You could still have a conversation at the levels I was listening. I think about a notch or two louder than Gary usually listens, though. Unless his wife was not home because he did tell me that he liked older Metalilca...) Fu Manchu was next up and WOW- I got the chills from the FU !!!! Never thought that would happen... The guitars are Mean and crunchy, and the soaring high notes don’t ever get harsh or glaring, the bass is thick and fuzzed-out-full. Everything is distinct. Fu Manchu has not sounded better than right here. I added PJ Harvey “A Place Called Home,” onto my audition CD because of it’s nice full sound, and was glad that I did. This track is a very sonically dense song that tends to blend together on the speakers in my truck, but not here, she sounded very clear and natural. Everything was easy to distinguish, you could sit there and dissect all the layers and instruments. PJ sounded really good on the Salks, which showed exceptional clarity and balance. The HT3’s ROCK!
Into the R&B section of my CD with “Ain't no Sunshine” and Bill Withers vocal is sounding very, very good. His vocal has a little bit of echo on it which has the effect of making the room feel much bigger than it is, opening up a huge soundstage. The strings come in sounding very nice as well, and kick drums also sound good. At this point I thought to myself, “these are going to be very hard to beat.” Erykah Badu’s “Rimshot” came on and I got the chills again!!! (They should give you a blanket if you buy these speakers, because you will need it) The HT3’s dig deep, very deep. You can hear every note but the absolute bottom, and that one you can feel. The lowest of the other speakers I’ve heard missed the bottom one or two notes on this song, these guys missed the bottom 1/2 note. The lowest of the low in this song is unnaturally low and you can tell it’s there, even if you cannot exactly hear it. (It’s got to be down around 20 Hz, but that is totally just a guess) Rim shots sounded great, but truth be told I wasn’t paying much attention to them I was too busy wiping the drool of my chin from the bass response to this song. “Apple tree” started up and I regained a little composure (Yes, I am exaggerating a bit but the depth and control of the bass is impressive) to note that her vocal was full and lush in every sense of those words. Again I noted that the bass was outstanding; clear and tight. I included “the Grunt” by the J.B.’s to listen how they handle a lot of brass at once, and they performed admirably. This recording is not great, as with much of James Brown’s work, but I can hear details like a faint echo on the horns (either from the room, or an effect added to the recording) that I had not noticed before. Brass sounds really good here. There is a (usually) shrill note at the very beginning of this song, and again in the middle, that was not shrill on the HT3’s, it was in tune, and not shrill.
Finley Quaye “even after all” gave the Hawks a moment of distortion in the bass, and you can hear the challenging part, but not the flop. This song is just one of those beautiful melodies that makes you feel a little sad and good all at the same time, and all that emotion comes through on the Salks. Full, rich, smooth, clear.... sublime. A couple hits on the triangle ring through clean and clear. When the guitar came in I got the chills AGAIN (this is ridiculous, I want them) the tone is absolutely amazing. I ended with a little electronic music and an expansive atmosphere opened up in front and all around me. DJ Krush’s manufactured universe runs deep. Detailed highs, full, deep bass, pure sweet mids... these speakers leave very little room to want more.
:yay: :jump: :spend: :T :T :T