Shiva Tapped Horn - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

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post #1 of 166 Old 01-24-10, 07:02 PM Thread Starter
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Shiva Tapped Horn

Last year the design below was posted on diyaudio for a tapped horn with a LAB12 driver in this thread.



With the Danley DTS10 being a bit of a craze at AVS at the moment, but not available forever, I was looking at this design again and wondering whether it would be worth building. The aspect that puts me off most is the size, but I have no WAF issues and a quad of new LAB12's still in boxes.
The DTS10 uses a driver 'similar' to the LAB12 (actually 2 of them).

The limiting factor for the most TH designs is excursion at some frequencies. This is definitely the case for this one and the LAB12, so I wondered how the Shiva might work. So after nearly a minute's hard work plugging the driver parameters into Hornresp and making Le 10mH, I came up with the following (note, all are quarter space in my images);

Shiva TH input screen:



2.83V FR comparison at 2.83V: Black = Shiva, Grey = LAB12



Displacement Limited SPL Comparison: Black = Shiva (52V), Grey = LAB12 (24V)



Shiva Cone Displacement at 52V:



LAB12 Cone Displacement at 24V:



This ERSE Inductor is the one I had in mind for the Shiva.

I also just realised I forgot to add the DCR of the above coil into the earlier calcs (Rg=0), so I redid the Shiva 2.83V with and without.
Not enough difference to worry about for me.
Edit: Black is with inductor R, grey without.



Note: 52V into 3.8R is about 700W, and 24V into 4.26R is 135W.


Do you think 4 of these, either driver, would be too much for a 52 cubic metre (1836 cubic ft for countries still stuck in the 19th century) apartment?

Thought this might give some Shiva owners, or potential owners, another option to play with.

Last edited by Lucky7!; 01-24-10 at 10:03 PM. Reason: Added note to clarify last graph.
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post #2 of 166 Old 01-24-10, 09:51 PM
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Re: Shiva Tapped Horn

Very good and easy build it looks like. When you say 1836 cubic ft apartment, do you mean that's the entire apartment or just the room you'll use them in? Either way it will be overkill, which I like.
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post #3 of 166 Old 01-24-10, 10:00 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Shiva Tapped Horn

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brandonnash wrote: View Post
Very good and easy build it looks like. When you say 1836 cubic ft apartment, do you mean that's the entire apartment or just the room you'll use them in? Either way it will be overkill, which I like.
1836 cf is the living room only.
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post #4 of 166 Old 01-24-10, 10:08 PM
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Re: Shiva Tapped Horn

So who will be the first to build one of these designs. I have a Shiva sitting in my basement waiting for a home.
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post #5 of 166 Old 01-24-10, 10:18 PM
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Re: Shiva Tapped Horn

I'm still new at the whole horn design, but with the total width only being 14.5" wide and only 13" for the baffle wouldn't it be a little tight? Plus wouldn't you have a tad bit of lower extension if you made the width maybe an inch or so bigger?
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post #6 of 166 Old 01-24-10, 10:24 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Shiva Tapped Horn

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brandonnash wrote: View Post
I'm still new at the whole horn design, but with the total width only being 14.5" wide and only 13" for the baffle wouldn't it be a little tight?
There are actual build pics in the diyaudio thread linked in the first line of post 1. Looks OK to me.
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post #7 of 166 Old 01-25-10, 10:05 AM
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Re: Shiva Tapped Horn

Hi,
The designs with the LAB12 seem to all go back to the Danley DTS-20. It would seem that one of these would be more than just sufficient. You may want to use the same Ang entry value (for general comparison I would suggest 2.0xPi).
Regards,
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post #8 of 166 Old 01-25-10, 10:45 AM
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Re: Shiva Tapped Horn

Sure.... the Shiva-X2 also works in Bill Fitz design. I've not built and measured any of these large horn designs so I'll punt on giving you advice. My personal opinion is that it is craziness. You don't live in a stadium or need to fill a full sized IMAX. The tradeoffs for size and complexity are not worth it in a small living environment. What you want is enough SPL so that you can playback anything you want at SPL levels that are convincing. The other thing you want is FR smoothness and the best way to achieve that in a room is multiple devices. The idea of putting multiple horn loaded subs in a typical living room is beyond overkill.

Kevin Haskins
Exodus Audio
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post #9 of 166 Old 01-25-10, 06:32 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Shiva Tapped Horn

Quote:
onetb46 wrote: View Post
Hi,
The designs with the LAB12 seem to all go back to the Danley DTS-20. It would seem that one of these would be more than just sufficient. You may want to use the same Ang entry value (for general comparison I would suggest 2.0xPi).
Regards,
The DTS20 has been modelled in the big Collaborative TH thread on diyaudio.
I chose quarter space as in most rooms a sub will be at or very close to a wall/floor boundary

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Kevin Haskins wrote: View Post
My personal opinion is that it is craziness.
Me too, but asking about 4 in an apartment was just my sense of humour.
Quote:
Kevin Haskins wrote: View Post
You don't live in a stadium or need to fill a full sized IMAX. The tradeoffs for size and complexity are not worth it in a small living environment.
Size, definitely, but they actually look very straightforward to build, and the original design even provides a cut sheet; that was one of the things that attracted me to it, and thought it might also for others who might want to have a go at a TH design.
Quote:
Kevin Haskins wrote: View Post
What you want is enough SPL so that you can playback anything you want at SPL levels that are convincing. The other thing you want is FR smoothness and the best way to achieve that in a room is multiple devices. The idea of putting multiple horn loaded subs in a typical living room is beyond overkill.

Kevin Haskins
Exodus Audio
Overkill can be fun, and the suggestion of 4 units, as well as being a bit tongue in cheek for my space, was for more even performance in the space a la Toole, Welti etc. I'd also rather have drivers being well inside their excursion limits even when I have it up louder than usual.

As I said in the first post, I was tinkering around with the simulator and threw the Shiva specs in for giggles, and it worked very well and improved the performance of the design by using a better driver. Danley has created a bit of a stir with the DTS kit at AVS, but it will only be available for a couple more weeks, and I thought others might try one with this design if interested in the concept, they have the space and can use the SPL capabilities of the unit.
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post #10 of 166 Old 01-25-10, 06:42 PM
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Re: Shiva Tapped Horn

Quote:
A9X wrote: View Post
The DTS20 has been modelled in the big Collaborative TH thread on diyaudio.
I chose quarter space as in most rooms a sub will be at or very close to a wall/floor boundary

Me too, but asking about 4 in an apartment was just my sense of humour.
Size, definitely, but they actually look very straightforward to build, and the original design even provides a cut sheet; that was one of the things that attracted me to it, and thought it might also for others who might want to have a go at a TH design.
Overkill can be fun, and the suggestion of 4 units, as well as being a bit tongue in cheek for my space, was for more even performance in the space a la Toole, Welti etc. I'd also rather have drivers being well inside their excursion limits even when I have it up louder than usual.

As I said in the first post, I was tinkering around with the simulator and threw the Shiva specs in for giggles, and it worked very well and improved the performance of the design by using a better driver. Danley has created a bit of a stir with the DTS kit at AVS, but it will only be available for a couple more weeks, and I thought others might try one with this design if interested in the concept, they have the space and can use the SPL capabilities of the unit.
If you have observed the forums for any length of time things go in and out of fashion on a regular basis. ;-)

I'd be willing to offer a contest for the best horn design based upon a Shiva-X2 though. Winner gets a free driver. How is that for incentive?

I'd have to set out some guidelines.... maybe people can have some input here. I'd say we limit enclosure size and shape to fit within some pre-determined footprint and that the bandwidth has to at least be usable to 15hz in-room. From your model I think you would be pretty close with that design.

What do you think of that idea?

Kevin Haskins
Exodus Audio
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